Amplified Big Band !?

connloyalist · Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2003 2:00 am Post subject:

Last night I attended an event with some friends that had several different types of band playing (too long to go into here). The last was a standard big band (5 trumpets, 5 saxophones, 4 trombones, 3 rhythm). Mostly men in the 50's and 60's.

Let me first describe the room this was happening in: fair depth, not very wide, and standard height ceiling about 8 ft or so. For band purposes, that is a low ceiling. These guys had microphones in between the band to amplify the soloists. However, the effect was that the entire band was amplified to the point that I couldn't hear the band playing directly, I only heard the speakers playing. Loudly. VERY loudly. Actually it was almost painful. Half the people not dancing had their fingers in their ears (including me). They were playing very well, sounded great. But way too loud, and the amplification also gave it a "playback quality". IMHO, it would have been much better if there had been no amplification at all. The room was plenty small enough with the low ceiling. And it would have removed the playback-like quality of it. And made the sound level much more pleasant. Afterall, in years gone by band used to play larger halls with no amplification at all.

Any opinions?

Regards, Christine

Pete · Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2003 3:41 am Post subject:

People that own PA equipment should be required to get a license. A test should be required, and some of the questions should be answered in essay form. The questions: Why are you amplifying this band, and what reference point do you use for balance? Is the bass supposed to be the loudest instrument in the ensemble?Explain! Why do you mike the drum set? Why can't you hear the trumpets when the band is amplified?

The problem is that some of these expert PA owners have zero experience amplifying/playing in big bands,or anything else. These people try to remove the natural tendencies of each instrument. Are saxophones naturally more powerful than the brass section? NO! When you play trumpet in these situations, you have no choice but to play louder, or bury the bell into the stand in order to hear yourself.

I haven't heard the Basie band lately, but when the Count was still alive, the band would often perform with one microphone for solos, and that was it. Man, what a great sound, and a great band! Who had control of the volume, dynamics, and overall expression of the band? The musicians that were playing it! These PA owners try to remove this control from the musicians.
It's like letting a 10 year old drive a school bus!

Pete

trickg · Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2003 5:42 am Post subject:

I'm in agreement that you really need to check the the needs of the room before you amplify the entire band. Depending on the venue, the big band I play with really only ever mics the soloists and the singer. We don't have a tremendous amount of PA equipment anyway due to the fact that the band leader wants to keep the band sounding fairly athentic.

When I was an Army bandsman, we used to amplify pretty much everyone, but we mainly played outdoor venues. The first summer I was there, we used a microphone for each of the trumpet players, buy the next summer, the sound guys used two plexiglass omni-directional mics placed high above so the mix happend more naturally and they didn't run evey person through the board. Still, there were the occasions like HS assemblies where the only amplification we used was for Bass, Guitar, Piano and soloists.
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Patrick Gleason
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kzem · Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2003 6:27 pm Post subject:

Man, I think that's my biggest problem with being in the Army- We're always told, "Well, we have the equipment, let's use it." So we're always miking the band, whether it's outside in a huge ampitheatre or inside a small cafe-torium at some grammar school. It gets pretty rough sometimes. And on top of that, we don't have anyone that has complete mastery over any of our sound stuff

Kurt Z

OCTA-C · Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2003 7:23 pm Post subject:

Amplification should only be used sparigly to spread the sound, balance the sections and help the soloists. You are absolutely right!! If it's a clean system, a little goes a long way. One of my biggest gripes is the lack of knowledge about sound reproduction and amplification among high school, middle and even elementary music teachers and band directors. A little study of acoustics and only a couple of well placed microphones can make all the difference in the world in most situations. IMO
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Jay S.

"May the good sound be yours!"

"Always remember to blow into the proper end of the horn!"-circa. 1900 (Harry Gardoon)

connloyalist · Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2003 9:27 pm Post subject:

Well, in this situation the band had one microphone in front of the trumpet section for the trumpet soloist, and ditto for the trombones and saxophones. And of course one for the singer (he wasn't all that good). But the effect was that the entire band was amplified and not just the soloist. Dreadfully loud. I don't know much about amplification, but might it have been the wrong type of microphone? If only they had at least turned the volume down a bit. That at least would have made a big difference.

Regards, Christine

2BSchilke · Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2003 2:33 pm Post subject:

With our big band, we mic the soloists- 2 mics in the sax section, 1 tbone, 1 trumpet, 1 vocalist. When not soloing, those mics are OFF! We play in many different rooms and it can be hard to adjust, we just make sure we really try to work on balance. Our sax section is strong, so that isn't a problem. Bass and keyboard each have their own amp, so we adjust during the 1st few numbers, then check again after breaks, etc. When we have played outside, it is tough, hopefully have some sort of acoustic shell setup. Another consideration is an appropriate song list which fits the venue.

Check us out at allthatjazzbigband.com.
Paul

surfhorn · Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2003 6:35 am Post subject:

After a 10 year lay off, I went back to playing trumpet about 13 years ago and most of that has been live performance and touring in an amplified setting: rock; ska; recording, etc.

Anything can be amplified properly and not blow out your ears. It is up to the band leader or manager to address this issue prior to the downbeat.

The sound tech is usually a pro but a couple of things could have happened:

1.) the 'sound tech' is somebodies little brother who has been thrown into the position as just a 'warm body'

2.) the soundtech has been doing this for way too many years and has blown out his ears. What he thinks is a 'normal level', may make the audiences ears bleed.

Every musician should familiarize themselves with the workings of a sound system. Only then can you have any hope of controling your environment. I carry various sytles of ear plugs, in my cases and in my jacket pockets, always ready to go, whether playing or listening to music. I know many musicians who wear shooting ear muffs during set-up and sound check - just in case.

Good luck!

Dan Young
Pleasure Point Horns