Best Trumpets for Hearing Feedback

[jsou1]

Hi.

I've done searches for the last few days and haven't really found a previous post which answers my questions so any advice on this would be appreciated...

I'm in the market for another trumpet and I'd like to take into consideration the fact this time that I have poor hearing in one of my ears. I'm thinking perhaps that a larger bell would provide a more spread sound and/or more volume of sound at the bell for me? I've tried short model cornets which REALLY kind of solve the problem, but I'm still a trumpet junkie so I haven't been convinced yet to switch to cornet as my main axe.

I primarily play small combo jazz, but am looking for an overall good performer. I do the occassional wedding or GB gig so at times I'll venture into the higher range and have a very solid G or A over high C. With some horns I've found the higher range to be more difficult to get a big sound. I don't however do big band work or need to play lead. I also never play in a section so blending isn't an issue. It's mostly all solo work.

This would probably be a used horn that I'll look for on EBay or local stores. To make it more difficult I want to spend around $1000. Here are some of the targets I've come up with: LA Benge (2X+, 3X, 3X+, 5X), Bach Strad, Vintage Silver Flair (I owned one way back and remember it to be a really nice player), Conn Vintage One, Xeno, Conn 8B maybe?.

I'm open to suggestions or any advice.

Thanks!
_________________
Johnny
http://www.johnnysouza.com

2014 Schilke Handcraft HCL-1
1941 Conn NY Symphony (22B)
1973 Yamaha 731 Flugelhorn
Warburton mouthpieces (anchor grip tops)

[John Miconi]

Hey Johnny,

For good feedback to the player I would recommend the 8310Z. This horn has the flat french beaded bell which offers more sound back to the player.
Also the 8340EM Miyashiro or the 8335LA. These are all Yamaha horns and share the same bell design.
You might be able to pick up a used 8310Z for around $1100.00. The other 2 horns mentioned will be slightly more.
_________________
John Miconi

[Matthew Anklan]

The best experience I've had behind the horn has been with the Conn Vintage One, and second, the Yamaha 8310Z. On those horns I could really hear myself.

That being said, I play a Kanstul 1501. The feedback was nice on the other horns, but I found myself "coming home" to the Kanstul every time I tried something else.
_________________
Matthew Anklan
www.matthewanklan.com
Patrick Mouthpieces Artist

[petere]

I'm deaf in one ear, too. I think the Bach 37 trumpet is a good one for feedback. Lighter weight Schilkes such as the B line are good for this, too.

However, I played an S 32 Schilke for a while and it did not bring the helpful feedback. Same with a Lawler T.

Like John said, I like how I can hear and feel a cornet. I recently picked up an Olds Studio cornet from 1959 and its a great horn for a hearing impaired player to play. Nice resonance, hand-feel and good wide sound.

[kevinwoods]

I would say that the horn with the best sound feedback I've played is the Conn Vintage One. I believe it has to do with the hand-hammered bell. I have an extra one in silver (about 95%) that I will be selling shortly($900-1000).

Cheers,

kw
_________________
Kevin Woods
Director of Jazz Studies
Western Washington University

[ldwoods]

I like my WT.

Another horn I remember was an older Yammie YTR734T. Not sure on the number, but it was the one with the standard first valve trigger.
_________________
Larry Woods
LDWoods

[fraserhutch]

I find my Calicchio 1s/2 actually has a little better feedback. I tend to use it for the really loud gigs more than my 8310z.
_________________
Schilke B1
Callet Jazz
Scodwell Standard Bb
Roger Ingram 1600is
Wild Thing Flugel
Dillon Rotary Picc.
GR and Curry Mouthpieces

[DCB1]

I think that the mouthpiece has something to do with the feedback..... just a thought.

Peace
_________________
DCB <><
John 14:6
Member since 2001
Curry
Bach
Selmer Radial
Kanstul
Holton
Amati
Conn

[Rich G]

Both of my Calicchio's (1S/7 and 1S/3) have excellent response and player feedback. It's one of the main reasons why I bought them. The Calicchio 1S/2 I owned several years ago had the best player feedback of any horn I ever owned.

With Z's, the 8310Z has much better feedback than the 6310Z (owned both).

The Strad 72* (lightweight) I owned had excellent feedback and a great sound. I also had a Strad 43 that had very good feedback but I wasn't crazy about the sound.

The feedback from my first Conn Vintage One was awful, the second one I had was better. Same ML bore model with 46 leadpipe and yellow brass bell, they sounded like they came from different manufacturers. I also played the V1 with rose brass bell and didn't like the feedback at all. One of my students had a V1 that played much better than the two I had. Funny thing though, My slides would not fit in his horn (too big) yet they were identical ML bore models. (!)

I owned two Lawlers, one with excellent feedback (suitcase model with #21 bell), the other was not at all good in terms of feedback, 'can't remember the model. Horn was raw brass, very distant sounding.

These are my experiences with horns I actually owned or played.
_________________
"I tried practicing for a few weeks, and ended up playing too fast." Paul Desmond

[Christian K. Peters]

Hello all.
This is pretty interesting as I just had the chance to play a number of trumpets. The horns were a Calicchio L 3/9, Schilke B2L, Bach 72/25*, Benge 2X+, Burbank Benge 3X and a New York Bach. The old Bach threw the sound out like there was no tomorrow. Not much behind the horn though. The Schilke sound was all around, making it difficult to the player if it was projecting...But it was. For this thread I would vote Schilke. For any othe topic the old Bach was amazing!! The other horns were similar but did vary in feel/resistance and core sound. Slotting on the 2X+ and Calicchio were a little squirrelier than anticipated. Just had to work a tad harder
_________________
Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976

[redface]

[BuckTrump]

From my understanding, much of the "feedback" is determined by the bell-shape. I think contacting Bach might shed some light on the matter.


On Another Note:

...Now I cannot remember, but wasn't there a clip-on device of some sort that you could clip onto your stand so it bounced some of your sound back to you?

The idea of this gizmo was to allow you to hear yourself, without distorting the sound for the audience.

(If only I could remember the name for it - you might save yourself from buying a new trumpet...but then again, we are always looking for good excuses to buy new horns...)


Ben

[Dan O'Donnell]

Johnny,

Take it from me...a guy who has done several (non-statistically valid) experiments and someone who really likes heavy horns with a dark sound...

If you want more feedback to you the player...stay away from any added weight...top buttons, caps, bottom caps, added sheet bracing, leadpipe sleeves, thick bells etc. etc. etc.

I have found that in most cases...the lighter the horn...the more feedback I hear...however...I have also found (through recording the sounds) that the lighter the horn...the brighter the sound is...(more higher overtones)

This is just a general rule...I'm sure others have examples where this theory does not apply.

Have fun experimenting!
_________________
God Bless,
Dan O'Donnell

"Praise Him with the sound of the Trumpet:..."
Psalms 150:3

[jsou1]

I appreciate all of the great feedback!

[shofarguy]

I have played many of the horns listed in this thread and BY FAR the most powerful feedback comes from the LA Benge 5X that I play. Another would be a Selmer Claude Gordon model.

The thing with high feedback horns is that the projection pattern can be so broad that it may even lose focus. I have to watch this with my horn, especially when I use an open back bore on my mouthpiece, like my #7 Scmidt (which is always). It means that I have to concentrate on maintaining focus in the sound. It's as simple as emphasizing the "firm corners" concept, but one should not relax too much mentally when trying to cut through a lot of instruments.

On the other hand the sound is so grand, it just floats out over a small ensemble with no effort, really.

Generally, I think feedback comes from two things, the taper of the bell and the size of the flare. Tighter tapers and smaller flares project forward, while wider tapers and large flares tend to produce feedback. And, yes back bores change the focus of the sound and either let it spread (open) or send it out forward (tight).

Do you want to hear yourself? Get a Benge 5X, you'll like the sound!

Brian
_________________
Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

[tom turner]

Hands down, the Wild Thing.

Super fast flare, that widens so much that you have to re-cork your mutes! It was worth it too. It really fills any size room and envelops the performer in sound.

T.

PS: The 5X Benge bell also has a gorgeous sound . . . the best of the Benges, IMHO!

[jsou1]

Brian,

Thanks for chiming in. When doing some TH forum searches I had seen some of your previous Benge posts. The 5X is pretty high on my list right now.

Thanks,

Johnny

[JonathanM]

As was stated earlier, the 8310Z that I had amazed me the first time I played it in a sanctuary - large hall. I badly overblew it - assuming that the sound was coming back to me and so couldn't possibly have been going out. Wrong! I was told later (kindly & by friends) that I was PLENTY loud...Oops. I just wasn't use to feedback like that.

As has also been said above the shape of the bell flare must be what does the feedback trick. I wonder if the 5" bells don't generally give better feedback? Or the 5 & 1/4, like the Mariachi horns by Kanstul, etc.? Makes me wonder about the Benge 5X, which I haven't yet played...

Anyway, my .02 of 8310Z exeperience and my wonders about large bell (good point above about the thin, flat French bead on the 8310Z, too) in general. Great thread question - I'm loving the thoughts here.
_________________
Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super

[jsou1]

A question on the 8310Z...

A couple of years back I was on a gig with a friend who had a 6310Z. I tried it for a song or two, but was not impressed by the clanky valves and the general build quality of the horn. Any comments on that? Is the 8310Z an improved model? Was this maybe just an issue with my friend's horn?

[JonathanM]

I owned and played the 8310Z for months - great horn - if you don't overblow and get 'stuffed' by it. Now, who would do that?

I'm amazed how many have both horns - I passed by a gorgeous used 6310Z today but didn't try it out. I think that the Yamaha sight has Bobby Shew saying that the bell of the 8310Z was one of the big changes; so either the thin French bead OR the move to the 5" bell OR both was one of the new things.

Clunky valves? Interesting. I played a Yamaha Vizutti and a new Yamaha Vax today - and marvelled at the fine details of both. The dealer mentioned to me that in recent months he had to send back several new horns by ____ but was consistently amazed by the quality of the Yamaha horns he received. As has been stated before, when a horn is new oil really needs to be used profusely to break in the valves. I know it's tiresome, but some horns require oil to the valves every couple days. One problem I've not had (and I've had 3 or 4 different Yamaha trumpets the last year; a 4335, Xeno RGS and the 8310Z) the valves were all excellent and the slides as well. Again, my .02...
_________________
Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super