Best Trumpets for Hearing Feedback

Retlaw · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:35 pm Post subject:

I agree that the lighter weight horns seem to give lots of information... laterally I find my flugel gives the most information.

Again laterally I have bought an AER cube amp and take my own mic which I use for fall back.....no more problems hearing myself on loud gigs

Specifically my Bach 43 RL and Olds Recording are easy to hear...... the Recording probably has the clearest..."the sock is out" sound of any horn I have ever tried....beautiful to look at as well.

Walter

Don Herman rev2 · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 6:22 am Post subject:

A light-weight horn with large bell would intuitively seem to offer the best feedback to the player.

I respectfully suggest one be very, very careful going down this path. The sound out front is not the sound we hear no matter how much feedback the horn gives us. Recording yourself, and/or having other players (or just people) listen "out front", will help learn what sound behind the bell you need to play to provide the sound you want out front.

FWIWFM - Don
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TekTrumpet27 · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:40 am Post subject:

I agree with what's been said about the 6310Z the feedback is terrible on it, I can't even hear what I'm playing on 3rd part with it in big band. However, I did testplay an 8310Z and it is definantly an improvement, the feedback and the blow are much better.
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fraserhutch · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:14 am Post subject:

In my case it;s PRECISELY the sound I hear that I am paying attention to, and that will guide to to where I know I need to be when performing.

I don't think any of us will ever hear what the audience hears when we are playing. Even a monitor feed from a PMS won;t give you that.

shofarguy · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:07 am Post subject:

Interestingly, my 5X has only a 4-5/8" flare to the bell. This is why I surmised that it is the taper of the bell that determines a great deal of the projection pattern. The 5X's pattern is like a cardioid mic.

Brian
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DCB1 · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:13 am Post subject:

My Kanstul/ Najoom Besson has great feedback and yet projects very well.

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shofarguy · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:45 am Post subject:

DCB1 · Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:49 am Post subject:

It has the B bell with a reversed leadpipe. The bell reminds me of the Besson I had.

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trumpetera · Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:29 am Post subject:

DCB1 · Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:47 am Post subject:

Rich G · Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 5:13 am Post subject:

DCB1 · Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 8:05 am Post subject:

The weather here can change quickly. It can be in the 60's when we start and be in the 30's when we finish. I will admit playing in the cold is "not" fun! I want a plastic copy of my current mouthpiece for such situations.

The Soundback I have I bought from Calicchio when they carried them. It has holes in it and is adjustable for how much sound you want to bounce back.

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trumpetera · Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:37 am Post subject:

Nifty thing, indeed!
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lipshurt · Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject:

jonathanm writes:

<<<Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:21 pm Post subject:
As was stated earlier, the 8310Z that I had amazed me the first time I played it in a sanctuary - large hall. I badly overblew it - assuming that the sound was coming back to me and so couldn't possibly have been going out. Wrong! I was told later (kindly & by friends) that I was PLENTY loud...Oops. I just wasn't use to feedback like that. >>>

huh? that would be a good example of what happens when there is very LITTLE feedback to the player. By "feedback" we are talking about hearing ourselves. The only way to to really check this is by playing in a situation where the stage volume is very high and the monitoring is accoustic.

The worst I have encountered are:
Schilke B1 berylium sliver plate
Schilke b2 berylium silver plate
Selmer K modified lacquer
Conn vintage one Rose brass 46 lacquer
Martin committee lacquer
Yamaha 6310z lacquer
yamaha 6345 heavy wall lacquer
Conn 12b heavy weight coprion bell lacquer

All of these were good horns, and I played each one for at least a year

The best for hearing yourself when it gets rough on stage:

Conn Vintage one Brass bell 46 silver plate (very good for hearing)
Bach large bore raw brass (C trumpet convertible)
Bach 72 silver plate (very good also)
bach 37 silver plate (borderline)
Yamaha 6310z raw (same horn as above stripped! Still borderline)
Conn 38B connstellation Nickel/lacquer (grand champion for hearing yourself)
Conn 22b silverplate

Kind of looks like the culprit is lacquer when you look at my list. The berylium bell sucks too for hearing yourself

Copper is not great for feedback either it looks like, although copper and lacquer tend to go together

Doug M
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pedaltonekid · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1711

The best horn I played for hearing from "behind the bell" was a Burbank Benge 3X. It was a gem, but I eventually sold it as I now play Schilke horns almost exclusively. Ironically it is tough to hear how you sound from "behind the bell" on a schilke. However my recorded sound is by far the best (IMO) on the Schilkes and I get more positive feedback on my sound when playing the schilkes and that was ultimately the deciding factor.
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Retlaw

jsou1 · Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:24 am Post subject:

Walter,

Any reason to rationalize a new trumpet, right?

In most cases I lead my own gigs so I do have control over speaker placement and where I stand and that helps greatly. It's the jobs that I may be hired for in which I don't have control over where I am in relation to the speakers or monitors (if available) that I have problems. I sing as well, but not hearly myself that well through the mains or monitors doesn't seem to effect my vocal performance, Not hearing my horn however results in my endurance fading pretty quickly. For example, I had a Bach CR310 short model cornet for a short while which was actually a pretty nice horn in hindsight. I did a few gigs with that horn for which I was hired to just play the horn. On a few of those jobs it was a small room and I used no mic at all. I was able to play all night long with great endurance as a result of the bell being so close to my face. Based on that I'm thinking that although I would never get the feedback of a short model cornet from a trumpet, there might be some trumpets with better feedback than others,

Thanks,
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Retlaw · Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:53 am Post subject:

Hey Johnny,

I hope there is a horn that will help.......

I have had two gigs recently with the similar problems. One was an open air stage.....powerful sound was coming out of the front speakers but being behind them it was hard to hear what the audience was getting....on stage the monitors needed EQ..I rely on my ears a lot when improvising....the keyboard monitor sounded very thin and was missing midrange and bass........fortunately I could hear myself quite well. The second time I brought my cube but the sound guy said his monitor would be fine....wrong...the sound bore no resemblance to a trumpet....... I don't know why it doesn't affect your singing as well? We have all seen the better guys on talent shows get "pitchy" .....no doubt down to what they are hearing.

I have decided to force my cube on sound guys where I can..... then at least I know where I am...thank goodness most of my stuff is in the more intimate settings...

I wish you well in your search for a new horn.....

Walter

PS I liked the sound samples on your site.....

Rich G · Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:02 am Post subject:

jsou1 · Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:23 am Post subject:

Rich,

Good point. You're on to something there. I also have much better luck hearing myself if when the sound hangs in the air longer either with a naturally reverberant room or by applying a reverb effect with a long decay.