• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Moto Perpetuo - Wynton vs. Mendez


Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Rafael Méndez
View previous topic :: View next topic  

Moto Perpetuo - Wynton vs. Mendez
Wynton
22%
 22%  [ 12 ]
Mendez
77%
 77%  [ 41 ]
Total Votes : 53

Author Message
westview1900
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 09 Aug 2005
Posts: 1617

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Art isn't like sports such as boxing, where we have matches such as Ali vs. Frazier. It is more like golf, where one tries to improve oneself to master one's environment. Both Wynton and Rafael excelled performing this piece.
_________________
Carpe Diem
and Plan for Tomorrow
Pat Paulsen for president
http://www.paulsen.com/
Stephen Colbert for president
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mariongloryscreamer
Regular Member


Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tell Tiger Woods that isn't competive. It is human fu*king nature to be competitive.

Carpe Dies Nuts
_________________
Dubba c comes out like butter on the bugle.......naked.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Winghorn
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 2156
Location: Olympia, Washington

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we should all just ignore the original poster. Obviously, he/she has nothing intelligent to contribute, and to respond just encourages these kinds of posts.
Steve Allison
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
trpt.hick
Rafael Méndez Forum Moderator


Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 2630

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I removed the original post. It was immature and hateful.

DH
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
DaveH
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 20 Nov 2001
Posts: 3861

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My vote is for Mendez.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jpetrocelli
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 Oct 2005
Posts: 3147
Location: Northern VA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both of them are amazing. But I love Mendez. He was a miracle before his time. A tongue like a machine gun.
_________________
Joe Petrocelli
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
JazzmanGIANT
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 847

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Marsalis' interpretation. I believe it is more musical, and seems to sound prettier..imho.
_________________
The thing to judge in any jazz artist is, does the man project and does he have ideas. MilesDavis
"Always be heard - no matter the dynamics."-Mr Adolph Herseth
Yamaha Xeno RGS 2008
Bach Strad 1973
Olds Ambassador 1963
Laskey 65MC
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
trpt.hick
Rafael Méndez Forum Moderator


Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 2630

PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't Wynton slur the notes? I can't remember for sure.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
kaminari4U
New Member


Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 5
Location: Kanagawa Japan

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi gang
Hey trpt.hick I believe Marsalis's version is slurred. I have the book Carnaval and Moto Perpetuo in that book, I don't have the sheet music in front of me but I recall it having a note saying it can be played slurred, lagato or both. I really don't mind v.s. threads when yah talk about inanimate objects like Martin Commitee v.s. Olds Recording (I probably have to save that one for another thread ) but when yah talk about performers v.s each other its hard for me to comment because those are people with differnet approaches to the trumpet. I admire both Mendez and Marsalis and I like both versions. Yah gotta think that when yah put your horn up to yah chops and play but a bit of your personality comes out of your horn (YOUR VOICE). When yah think about Marsalis' personality he's always saying that music should tell a story so you probably say that his version is real flowy and lyrical while we also know that Mendez was a perfectionist OCD and very serious about technique. You can probably say that his tone is good but the feeling is machinical but I'm always in awe when I hear Mendez's version because I still can't believe that a person's tounge can flow like that. That's why in my practice I strive for both musicality and technical superiority
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Flattergrub
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 762

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the things (among many) that made Mendez so special IMHO was his performance flair. What an absolutely unbelievable showman. A different time that we probably won't see again. Take a look at the clips on YouTube. The whole package right there. Great performer, great artist and great showman. Quite the combination that only comes along maybe once in a lifetime if that.
_________________
Smith Watkins "Soloist" cornet with K2 and T4 leadpipes and Denis Wick RW4 mpc
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chad.daigle
Regular Member


Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 85
Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flattergrub-
BINGO!
You Nailed it!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bike&ed
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Posts: 1837

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mendez's version will amaze any brass player for his ability to simply be able to tongue the whole thing so cleanly and yes, harshly, while circular breathing. I believe Sergei Nakariakov recorded a tongued version as well.

Wynton's version will amaze ANY human being for his ability to make real music while circular breathing. He also sounds much more like a violinist with his phrasing and register choices.

Who's the winner? In my book they both are. However, I could put Wynton's version in a playlist with other classical selections and nobody would be the wiser, while most non-trumpeters are likely to hear the first few seconds of the Mendez and say "What is this racket? Change the station, this is why I don't like listening to the trumpet, it's such an irritationg instrument."

(Mendez was VERY successful at making non-trumpeters his fans, but I'm 99.9999% sure that this particular piece would be quite uncuccessful at doing so.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Vin DiBona
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 1473
Location: OHare area

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the 60s,70s, and early 80s Wally Phillips on WGN radio held an unbelievable and as yet unmatched hold on the morning drive in Chicago. His audience was usually over 1 million per day.
At least once a year, he would pull out the Mendez Moto Perpetuo and play it. His phone lines would light up with questions and comments from non-musical folks asking where they could get the recording and
just who was this Mendez fellow. A knowledgable trumpet player would usually come on and explain how he did it.
I admire both the Nakariakov and Marsalis versions yet Mendez played it
in a much higher key making for considerable double tonguing around high C and high D. His tempo is nearly the same as Perlman's violin version.
I've listened to this recording hundreds of time and I do not believe anyone will ever be able to play this the way Mendez could.
I also do not hear any harshness while he is perfoming. The recording itself is not perfect and who knows how far from the master tape the albums were made from. Each generation of copy away from the master creates more and more distortion. But harshness from Mr. Mendez I do not hear. Let us also keep in mind this was a technical piece by the extraordinary virtuoso Paganini and it was written to be played staccato.
As stated above, the Marsalis and Nakariakov versions are to be admired and appreciated yet the Mendez version takes it to another level of virtuosity still not approached.
Rich Tomasek
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
ThisGoesToEleven
Veteran Member


Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 152
Location: Fair Haven, VT

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i like wynton's better, it's a little more "listener-friendly"
that said, i'm still absolutely floored by mendez's technique, showmanship, and breath support


also, i lol'd at "carpe dies nuts"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
trpt.hick
Rafael Méndez Forum Moderator


Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 2630

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich,

WELL SAID!!!

Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Winghorn
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 2156
Location: Olympia, Washington

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like to think Mendez was having fun and saying to the rest of we trumpet players, "In case you were thinking you were catching up to me...." I have never heard, before or after, such exciting and amazing trumpet playing. As many have said, there will never be another Mendez.

Regards

Steve Allison
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jpetrocelli
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 Oct 2005
Posts: 3147
Location: Northern VA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winghorn wrote:
I like to think Mendez was having fun and saying to the rest of we trumpet players, "In case you were thinking you were catching up to me...." I have never heard, before or after, such exciting and amazing trumpet playing. As many have said, there will never be another Mendez.

Regards

Steve Allison


True that.....True that.
_________________
Joe Petrocelli
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
the pharmer
Regular Member


Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mendez and Nakariakov both recorded this in the higher key of B-flat concert (and both double tongued), whereas Marsalis' is F concert (slurred).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
gio trumpeter
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Jul 2004
Posts: 894
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

as we all know, mendez's version (namely that particular recording) wasnt all in one take.. it was spliced together from 4 parts (4.. i think)

** although i'm sure he has played the whole thing in its entirety .. but not in the recording

i have no knowledge of wynton doing that.. but its slurred and in a lower key.. (correct me if i'm wrong)

keeping that in mind. it is simply amazing that someone can double tongue and circular breath at the same time.. that's just crazy


as for sergei.. i'm speechless
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address MSN Messenger
_TrumpeT_
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 1426

PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vin DiBona wrote:
In the 60s,70s, and early 80s Wally Phillips on WGN radio held an unbelievable and as yet unmatched hold on the morning drive in Chicago. His audience was usually over 1 million per day.
At least once a year, he would pull out the Mendez Moto Perpetuo and play it. His phone lines would light up with questions and comments from non-musical folks asking where they could get the recording and
just who was this Mendez fellow. A knowledgable trumpet player would usually come on and explain how he did it.
I admire both the Nakariakov and Marsalis versions yet Mendez played it
in a much higher key making for considerable double tonguing around high C and high D. His tempo is nearly the same as Perlman's violin version.
I've listened to this recording hundreds of time and I do not believe anyone will ever be able to play this the way Mendez could.
I also do not hear any harshness while he is perfoming. The recording itself is not perfect and who knows how far from the master tape the albums were made from. Each generation of copy away from the master creates more and more distortion. But harshness from Mr. Mendez I do not hear. Let us also keep in mind this was a technical piece by the extraordinary virtuoso Paganini and it was written to be played staccato.
As stated above, the Marsalis and Nakariakov versions are to be admired and appreciated yet the Mendez version takes it to another level of virtuosity still not approached.
Rich Tomasek


Didn't Sergei play it in the same key as Mendez?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Rafael Méndez All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group