Rudy Muck Observations

VetPsychWars · Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject: Rudy Muck Observations

So I now have three very old Rudy Muck mouthpieces, and I've made a few observations. I'd be interested to hear what others think.

Let me point out that I am definitely not talking about the modern/new ones. Those have specifications that have been published. These are older ones. Here's an example of one that I won on ebay.

I have now a 19C, a 17C, and a 15S.

1. As near as I am able to measure, all of these mouthpieces have a cup diameter of 0.660". They're all the same.

2. The C mouthpieces have an extra-wide rim where the S mouthpiece has a rim comparable to a modern/standard mouthpiece. However, they are all labeled "Cushion Rim".

3. The C mouthpieces have a V-shaped cup. The S mouthpiece has a bowl-shaped cup. The 15S, in fact, is shaped uncannily like a Bach 3C.

4. The 19C is the shallowest, followed by the 17C, and then the 15S. The progression seems linear, but it's difficult to measure.

5. The exit aperture for all three mouthpieces is notably different. Speculation: the throat and backbore are balanced to the cup volume. Objection: These are all used and old.

Here's where I'm going to put it out there and see what the planet thinks. I speculate that all classic Rudy Muck moouthpieces are the same diameter. The number denotes the cup depth. The letter denotes the cup shape.

So, what do you guys think? Remember, I'm talking the classic old ones, not the modern ones.

Tom
_________________
1950 Buescher Lightweight 400 Trumpet
1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
GR65M, GR65 Cor #1

DCB1 · Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject:

Maybe this can shed some light on it....
http://www.rudymuck.info/mps.htm

I had one and it was interesting.

Peace
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Member since 2001
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VetPsychWars · Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:42 pm Post subject:

I'm aware of that site. There's very little useful there.

Tom
_________________
1950 Buescher Lightweight 400 Trumpet
1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
GR65M, GR65 Cor #1

DCB1 · Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject:

Sorry.... I have not seen much besides that.

Peace
_________________
DCB <><
John 14:6
Member since 2001
Curry
Bach
Selmer Radial
Kanstul
Holton
Amati
Conn

dmr · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:28 am Post subject:

Out of curiosity, do you know if anyone has taken a Rudy Muck and put a more conventional rim on it? I read your post about the 15S but it still seems like it's awfully wide.

I "inherited" an old 17c which doesn't see much use; it maybe gets plugged in once a year for kicks. The thing is, it seems like there may be some qualities about the rest of the MP that I would like--IF I could get the rim to work for me...

Sorry if this is a partial hijack, however as discussion comes up so infrequently on this mp I thought I'd jump on it...

Buffalo42 · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:22 am Post subject: Rudy Muck Observations

I have a old 18C thats been sitting in a box, in fair condition which you may have for your collection. PM me and I'd be glad to send it.

Mike

VetPsychWars · Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:28 pm Post subject:

Sturmbill · Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:13 am Post subject:

FWIW, I have an 11M Rudy Muck. It says on it :

Rudy Muck, N.Y.
Cushon Rim
Hand Made

The 11 over M is on the other side. The rim is indeed about .660 and the cup is approximately the same depth as my Curry 5C. I used the scientific method of using a pencil to check the throat and it is somewhat bigger that the Curry's "loose" #27.

Very heavy mouthpiece, but quite comfortable to play.

Bill
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Noli illegitimi carborundum... Joe Stilwell

skootchy · Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:43 pm Post subject:

Tom:
Those pictures on E-bay don't look like the original Rudy Mucks. Not only the mouthpiece itself but the rim looks too thin for an original. That Rudy Muck site showed the older ones, quite a difference. I remember those way back in the mid 60's. That "cushion rim" was even larger than the original Parduba's and the cup was very shallow with a very slight second cup.
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VetPsychWars · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:47 am Post subject:

Found another Rudy Muck of the same blank shown in the auction cited above, of size 14M.

Here's a recap:

Smaller number is deeper. Letter denotes cup shape. Diameter is more or less the same among all sizes. To answer skootchy above, all of the C cups I've seen have very wide rims. The S and M models I have do not.

So, I recently received a 14M. Compared to the 15S, the cup is slightly smaller diameter. Could be variation from replating, could be normal. Cup shape is approximately the same, mostly a bowl shape.

Depth is interesting. Going from a 15 to a 14, you might think that the cup would be only a little deeper. Instead, it's a lot deeper.

Throat seems to be about the same diameter. Looking up the backbore, it appears that the backbore is of a different shape.

The 14M also plays differently than the 15S. Since I'm just a dorky old comeback player, I can't tell you any more than that.

It plays a bit easier on my horns, if that makes any difference.

Got it in raw brass (misread the ad, darnit) so I'll have to get it plated.

The search continues! I'm currently looking for a 13C to see how it compares to the 17C and 19C. I can play the 17C but the 19C is a lost cause, I bottom out.

To address another point made by skootchy about "original" Rudy Muck. These are not the oldest style blank, and they are not the newest. I have a mid- to late-30s Buescher catalog that shows Rudy Muck mouthpieces with this blank in the back, so it's likely they were from around that period. More than that, I cannot say. I also have a 18C marked "hand made" with a VERY sharp bite, like a Bach 10 1/2 CW, a deeper funnel cup, a different backbore, and a different blank. There's also evidence that the line was redesigned in 1937 based on current marketing text. So, this blank is likely post-1937. I don't yet know how long mouthpieces were made with this blank.

The research continues.

Tom
_________________
1950 Buescher Lightweight 400 Trumpet
1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
GR65M, GR65 Cor #1

deejaymushone · Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: Vintage Rudy Muck Mouthpieces

Greetings Tom et al,

I realize I am a bit late to the party here. I have been messing with a vintage Muck 17S this week-end, and it feels pretty good. I am curious if you found more info about the vintage Muck mouthpieces other than what is posted above (from >10 years ago!), and if so, would love to hear about it ! From what I have seen so far, there is ALOT of variation in the vintage Muck mp's; I have seen at least 3 vintage ones marked "17C" that were all different, including a wide one, and a pretty narrow one (the one I have been trying out). I am also curious about the 19C, which you had said above is shallower than the 17C......

All the best,

jdm
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1924 Besson Rapuwano
1941 Martin HCI / 1949 Committee Deluxe
1947 Chicago Benge
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JeffM729 · Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:09 am Post subject:

Having played several Mucks back in the '60s and encountered more teaching drum and bugle corps, this 1937 list of measurements seems accurate.

http://www.rudymuck.info/mpbrochure/rmbrochure1.jpg

deejaymushone · Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:40 pm Post subject: