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WHY NOT A BIOFILM OF THE GREAT LEGEND, HARRY JAMES?


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toughcritic
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:39 am    Post subject: WHY NOT A BIOFILM OF THE GREAT LEGEND, HARRY JAMES? Reply with quote

Ever since the publishing of the great Harry James biography, TRUMPET BLUES by Peter Levinson in 1999, I have been racking my brain wondering why some creative and music loving filmmaker has not made a jazz-big band biofilm of the late legendary trumpeter-bandleader. Harry's life has all the elements necessary drama for a truly great movie: his early career in the circus, his meteoric rise in top territory bands, his ascension to the great Benny Goodman band, his marriage to Louise Tobin, formation of his own fantastic band, his million selling records, his marriage to the movie queen Betty Grable, his long story book career in films and concerts and the gradual descent into gambling, booze and babes with his continued performing to within 7 days of his death from cnacer. This is a story of which great films are made and it could really be done well but not in the "Hollywood fairytale" manner of the Glenn Miller Story or the Benny Goodman Story. As to who I see playing Harry, if a film is ever roduced, I see the popular jazz singer, pianist, Harry Connick Jr. , a dead ringer for the younger Harry with the addition of a mustache. I can think of no other music luminary whose career was as big and dramatic except maybe the laate great Judy Garland.
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Tony Scodwell
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:18 pm    Post subject: Harry James Movie Reply with quote

Nobody loved Harry more than me, with the possible exception of toughcritic, but after trying [with Peter Levinson's help] to get a FANTASTIC recording released that the great remote engineer Wally Heider made of the Harry James Band in 1965 at the Monterey Jazz Festival to no avail, I had to conclude that Harry has been forgotten. I mean, no less than George Avakian called ME to offer his apologies for not being able to drum up any interest in these very rare recordings. [George produced Harry at Colombia along with some guy named Sinatra in their heydays]. We had obtained permission from Buddy Richs' wife Marie and daughter Cathy plus Ernie Andrews plus Jon Hendricks plus the James estate. That's how positive we all were that this recording should be released. Wally had given me 1/2 track dupes from the masters and the missing segments were found in the Library of Congress [Wally didn't think I wanted the entire Buddy Rich solo on "Two O' Clock Jump]. The festival that year was billed as a "Tribute To The Trumpet" and we followed Satch, Clark Terry, Miles and Dizzy. The band was amazing and tempos were never faster. Harry, Ernie and Jon Hendricks were all scat singing on "Flying Home". Amazing is an understatement for this recording. You see what I mean? It breaks my heart to have watched this all happen without a good result. Perhaps a good guy like Clint Eastwood might see the merit of a movie. The plot certainly has all the goodies Hollywood seems to want these days.
Tony Scodwell
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toughcritic
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:55 am    Post subject: Re: Harry James Movie Reply with quote

Tony Scodwell wrote:
Nobody loved Harry more than me, with the possible exception of toughcritic, but after trying [with Peter Levinson's help] to get a FANTASTIC recording released that the great remote engineer Wally Heider made of the Harry James Band in 1965 at the Monterey Jazz Festival to no avail, I had to conclude that Harry has been forgotten. I mean, no less than George Avakian called ME to offer his apologies for not being able to drum up any interest in these very rare recordings. [George produced Harry at Colombia along with some guy named Sinatra in their heydays]. We had obtained permission from Buddy Richs' wife Marie and daughter Cathy plus Ernie Andrews plus Jon Hendricks plus the James estate. That's how positive we all were that this recording should be released. Wally had given me 1/2 track dupes from the masters and the missing segments were found in the Library of Congress [Wally didn't think I wanted the entire Buddy Rich solo on "Two O' Clock Jump]. The festival that year was billed as a "Tribute To The Trumpet" and we followed Satch, Clark Terry, Miles and Dizzy. The band was amazing and tempos were never faster. Harry, Ernie and Jon Hendricks were all scat singing on "Flying Home". Amazing is an understatement for this recording. You see what I mean? It breaks my heart to have watched this all happen without a good result. Perhaps a good guy like Clint Eastwood might see the merit of a movie. The plot certainly has all the goodies Hollywood seems to want these days.
Tony Scodwell
Scodwell USA Trumpets and Flugelhorns
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Several years ago you sent me taped snipets of that historic Montery concert. It blew me away. I heard greater and faster versions of James classics that totally eclipsed the stuidio versions. One in particular, CUBANA CHANT was fantastic. The only James tune I ever heard played faster was at a 1962 Freedomland concert with Pat Boone and the band played the Basie standard, JUMPIN' AT THE WOODSIDE. It completely smoked the Basie version 10 times over and totally removed all doubt that Harry was one of the most formidable jazz soloists of all time. As for Harry being forgotten, I disagree. My young trumpet playing son discusses trumpeters all the time with his peers and they all know Harry's work. While my son was lead trumpet in the U.S. Army's jazz ensemble, THE JAZZ KNIGHTS, they did a tribute to Harry James in concert. Principal trumpet with the Minnesota Orchestra, Manny Laureano, always mentioned Harry in his tutoring of young musicians in the Minnesota Youth Symphonies which my son Mark was a member of for five years. With your influence I can't believe that someone can't digitally clean up those tapes and produce a great CD.I

On another note, I can't believe if the idea was laid out to Clint Eastwood who we all know is a jazz afficianado wilth his film BIRD and other soundtracks for films he has done with Lennie Niehaus, that the drama, musical history, Hollywood glitter and great music of the James story would not blow him away. As for Harry being forgotten, Hollywood has made hit films of long forgotten people such as haavywieght boxer James J. Braddock portrayed by Russell Crowe, HOLLLYWOODLAND which dealt with Superman D level actor, George Reeves, and TUCKER, the story of renegade auto designer Preston Tucker. To me, if the story is great, the personality could be totally unknown and the film could be a hit.

Dick Bobnick (Toughcritc)
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Biber
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great idea! Maybe Doc could be convinced to come out of retirement to do the soundtrack.

B
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tommy t.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read the topic and thought "No way. Nobody that doesn't read this forum knows who Harry is and nobody is interested in jazz anymore." I asked my 36 year old daughter-in-law, cornet player and active amateur musician, and she never heard of Harry. Even my 38 year old son, Eastman trained pianist, son of a famous trumpet player (me) and grandson of another, had never heard of Harry. I've got a bunch of Harry James Lps; my son has heard them, but I guess none of it wore off.

The arguements here sound good to me. Perfect Hollywood story. That is, perfect Hollywood pre-megaaction flicks, pre-superviolence flicks, pre-computer generated fantasy.

Now, I don't know. I think Harry's gone, along with live music in Vegas.

Hey, why don't we get somebody to do a historical documentary on how there actually used to be live bands in Vegas?

Tommy T.
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toughcritic
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tommy t. wrote:
I read the topic and thought "No way. Nobody that doesn't read this forum knows who Harry is and nobody is interested in jazz anymore." I asked my 36 year old daughter-in-law, cornet player and active amateur musician, and she never heard of Harry. Even my 38 year old son, Eastman trained pianist, son of a famous trumpet player (me) and grandson of another, had never heard of Harry. I've got a bunch of Harry James Lps; my son has heard them, but I guess none of it wore off.

The arguements here sound good to me. Perfect Hollywood story. That is, perfect Hollywood pre-megaaction flicks, pre-superviolence flicks, pre-computer generated fantasy.

Now, I don't know. I think Harry's gone, along with live music in Vegas.

Hey, why don't we get somebody to do a historical documentary on how there actually used to be live bands in Vegas?

Tommy T.


I am sorry you have such a negative attitude regarding interest in jazz, big band live music and Harry James. All I can say is, here, in the Twin Cities of St. Paul and Minneapolis, jazz is alive and well. We have a very active Twin Cities Jazz Society with over 1000 active members. We have Jazz festivals every Summer with over 15 very active big bands giving paid and free concerts from early Spring to early Fall. We are the home of the Jazz MN Big Band, a premier jazz ensemble of 18 top flight musicians, many of whom have been on the road with Buddy Rich, Woody Herman, Glenn Miller and Artie Shaw ghost bands. My own son is a sub with that group. They give four extremely well attended concerts a year with name guest artists such as Arturo Sandoval, Eddie Daniels, Wayne Bergeron and others. My son, a top trumpet player with a dual Masters Degree from Eastman, just returned from West Point where he was lead trumpet with one of the U.S. Army's premier ensembles, the JAZZ KNIGHTS. He is a jazz educator now and jobs at least two or three times a week. He was weaned on Harry James records and considers Harry a prime influence to most trumpeters. Most every major high school, college and University in this area has at least one or two jazz ensembles that play the bulk of main line traditional jazz and big band literature. My point is: the Jazz genre needs nurturing and support. I repeat my argument that the subject of a film need not be a household name, but if the story is good, well written and directed by people who really know the big band music genre and it is well publicized then it can be a hit. Again, look at the popularity of the film BIRD. How many people today know who the bird was or care? But, it was a well crafted film and people went to see it.
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pfeifela
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a huge fan of Harry James.......in fact, can't think of anyone with a sound I'd rather have if I could have such a choice.....so there's my bias.

But with that said, I think Hollywood has little interest in the historic or cultural merit of a story. There are far more "stories" available than Hollywood could ever tell. So those with the most profit potential nautrally rise to the top. In my mind, Harry James was in many ways the perfect talent, but I'm less certain his life would make the perfect story.

In an age where promotional efforts and general "marketability" loom as large as talent it is easy to believe many current great talents are unknown and inevitable that great talents of the past will move ever more quickly over the horizon of our cultural rear view mirror.

I'm not surprised Charlotte Church is rich with a voice like an angel and a face to match. But would we know Aretha Franklin if she were twenty years old today?

O.K. I think I'm depressing myself. Just make the Harry James movie. I'll come.
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tommy t.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

toughcritic wrote:
tommy t. wrote:
I read the topic and thought "No way. Nobody that doesn't read this forum knows who Harry is and nobody is interested in jazz anymore." I asked my 36 year old daughter-in-law, cornet player and active amateur musician, and she never heard of Harry. Even my 38 year old son, Eastman trained pianist, son of a famous trumpet player (me) and grandson of another, had never heard of Harry. I've got a bunch of Harry James Lps; my son has heard them, but I guess none of it wore off.

The arguements here sound good to me. Perfect Hollywood story. That is, perfect Hollywood pre-megaaction flicks, pre-superviolence flicks, pre-computer generated fantasy.

Now, I don't know. I think Harry's gone, along with live music in Vegas.

Hey, why don't we get somebody to do a historical documentary on how there actually used to be live bands in Vegas?

Tommy T.


I am sorry you have such a negative attitude regarding interest in jazz, big band live music and Harry James. All I can say is, here, in the Twin Cities of St. Paul and Minneapolis, jazz is alive and well. We have a very active Twin Cities Jazz Society with over 1000 active members. We have Jazz festivals every Summer with over 15 very active big bands giving paid and free concerts from early Spring to early Fall. We are the home of the Jazz MN Big Band, a premier jazz ensemble of 18 top flight musicians, many of whom have been on the road with Buddy Rich, Woody Herman, Glenn Miller and Artie Shaw ghost bands. My own son is a sub with that group. They give four extremely well attended concerts a year with name guest artists such as Arturo Sandoval, Eddie Daniels, Wayne Bergeron and others. My son, a top trumpet player with a dual Masters Degree from Eastman, just returned from West Point where he was lead trumpet with one of the U.S. Army's premier ensembles, the JAZZ KNIGHTS. He is a jazz educator now and jobs at least two or three times a week. He was weaned on Harry James records and considers Harry a prime influence to most trumpeters. Most every major high school, college and University in this area has at least one or two jazz ensembles that play the bulk of main line traditional jazz and big band literature. My point is: the Jazz genre needs nurturing and support. I repeat my argument that the subject of a film need not be a household name, but if the story is good, well written and directed by people who really know the big band music genre and it is well publicized then it can be a hit. Again, look at the popularity of the film BIRD. How many people today know who the bird was or care? But, it was a well crafted film and people went to see it.


My attitude comes from seeing Roy Elridge playing solo with a drum machine for tips in Jimmy Ryan's on 52nd Street; being one of 12 people in the V.V. listening to Rashan Roland Kirk; one of 4 at Sandy's Jazz Revival for Dizzy G.; one of 17 in a Harvard Square club with Jon Fadis; one of about 45 who showed up for a free outdoor Sandoval set during a Boston Jazz Festival. My attitude comes from attending name jazz festivals that are nothing but fusion, Latin or Euro-Technic. My attitude comes from having two kids who were raised with jazz in the house all the time and who knew enough about jazz to play with me in public but neither of whom could recall who Harry James was or, after being reminded that he was a jazz trumpet, remembering anything about him. (Saying that he was married to Betty Grable didn't help -- neither one had any knowledge of her either.)

Nothing against the twin cities. I think they are one the best urban areas in the U.S. and they always have been a home to good music of all types. I'm worried about St. Louis, Kansas City, Denver, Houston and Las Vegas.

There would be no job for Harry J. in Vegas if he still were playing today.

Tommy T.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

toughcritic wrote:
Again, look at the popularity of the film BIRD. How many people today know who the bird was or care?


Parker's music changed the direction of modern jazz music. His solos are still studied extensively by students of jazz today. I'm not sure that the comparison is fair to Mr. James.

(With all due respect to Mr. James, who was certainly a virtuoso and enjoyed great professional and popular success.)
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toughcritic
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

quote]

My attitude comes from seeing Roy Elridge playing solo with a drum machine for tips in Jimmy Ryan's on 52nd Street; being one of 12 people in the V.V. listening to Rashan Roland Kirk; one of 4 at Sandy's Jazz Revival for Dizzy G.; one of 17 in a Harvard Square club with Jon Fadis; one of about 45 who showed up for a free outdoor Sandoval set during a Boston Jazz Festival. My attitude comes from attending name jazz festivals that are nothing but fusion, Latin or Euro-Technic. My attitude comes from having two kids who were raised with jazz in the house all the time and who knew enough about jazz to play with me in public but neither of whom could recall who Harry James was or, after being reminded that he was a jazz trumpet, remembering anything about him. (Saying that he was married to Betty Grable didn't help -- neither one had any knowledge of her either.)

Nothing against the twin cities. I think they are one the best urban areas in the U.S. and they always have been a home to good music of all types. I'm worried about St. Louis, Kansas City, Denver, Houston and Las Vegas.

There would be no job for Harry J. in Vegas if he still were playing today.

Tommy T.[/quote]

Your observations are valid and quite sad and I can't disagree that that is the sad state of affairs in the music business and entertainment in general. Today we are literally bludgeeoned with the day to day demoralizing sordid actions of the Madonnas, Spears, Lohans and Jacksons. Entertainers today are not noteworthy for their product but for their personal (really public) lives. The truly great young singers such as traditional and jazz vocalist Jane Monheit are virtually unknown to the general public. Michael Buble has managed to build a great club and concet career even though he is a very traditional pop vocalist in the Sinatra mold. It almost angers me when I see a trumpeter like Chris Botti making a huge name for himself built on a career based on youthful good looks and a super schmaltz style. He has become the Yanni of the trumpet. In a word if you are mediocre and have enough hype you can be a star. One need only look at several of the AMERICAN IDOL winners and also rans: Clay Aiken, Kelly Clarkson and Ruben Studdard.

It seems to me that the makers and shakers in the music world have veered the entire public into mediocrity and junk for the quick buck. How else could a so called genre like rap gained the popularity it has. I could get on my soapbox for hours on this subject but in the end, communities have to support the "good stuff" and it can proliferate. As to the Vegas scene I believe if a truly creative and music oriented person or persons were running the talent end of the hotel's shows they could offer entertainment packages built more on the model of the old Ed Sullivan TV show: a great pop singer, a big band, an opera singer, a magician and an animal act all on the same stage. Sullivan did it for twenty some years and it worked. Today, great TV shows like AMERICA'S GOT TALENT is trying successfully to do the same thing. I remain hopeful.

One more comment about a hoped for James biofilm. One of the most successful biofilms that even garnered Oscars was the Ray Charles film. How many kids today knew about Ray Charles? They don't listen to "oldies" radio.
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slide911
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

" Again, look at the popularity of the film BIRD. How many people today know who the bird was or care? But, it was a well crafted film and people went to see it."

Actually they didn't.

The film made $27,000 on its opening weekend. and it's entire box office receipts, (to date - both domestic and foreign), is just a little over $2 million. Not exactly a smash. And that had Clint Eastwood as director associated with it.

Compare that to Million Dollar Baby, another Eastwood picture. Million Dollar Baby took in $12 million its opening weekend and made over 100 million domestically.

And: another film that opened on the same day as Bird - Elvira, Mistress of the Dark - took in nearly $6 million domestically, nearly 3 times what Bird brought in.

Now that is a sobering thought.

One last statistic (so we are comparing apples to apples) in the year it came out 1988, Bird was ranked 152 in domestic receipts. In other words, 151 films did better than Bird that year. That is pretty bad.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My guess is that a biographical movie about a musician has to be about a musician who was extremely successful and most importantly in this case, still well known throughout the U.S., in order for it to make money. Johnny Cash and Ray Charles are American icons. As that movie star Borat would say, Harry James, not so much.
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slide911
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a link to the top selling musical bio pics of all time: http://www.boxofficemojo.com/genres/chart/?id=musicbio.htm

Sid and Nancy is a good example of a film where the subject was neither successful or well known. But it was a damn good story.

It seems to me that Harry James's life is not all that interesting. Sounds like he had a great life, which is good for him but not so interesting to watch. Even if he became an alcoholic later, that was post career.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

slide911 wrote:
Here is a link to the top selling musical bio pics of all time: http://www.boxofficemojo.com/genres/chart/?id=musicbio.htm


Well, at least Bird beat out The Germs.

Eb
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toughcritic
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

slide911 wrote:
Here is a link to the top selling musical bio pics of all time: http://www.boxofficemojo.com/genres/chart/?id=musicbio.htm

Sid and Nancy is a good example of a film where the subject was neither successful or well known. But it was a damn good story.

It seems to me that Harry James's life is not all that interesting. Sounds like he had a great life, which is good for him but not so interesting to watch. Even if he became an alcoholic later, that was post career.



Are you trying to tell me that the Glennn Miller Story, the Benny Goodman Story and the Gene Krupa Story were not major hits? When they played they packed the theaters. I know, I was there and saw all three of them three times each, as did many people at the time.

You obviously don't know anything about Harry James. I am not trying to convince you of anything but I just think you should know a few facts: The Benny Goodman band in the '30's was extremely popular but when Harry James joined the trumpet section in December of 1936 the band took on an excitement and popularity like never before culminating in the historic Carnegie Hall concert of 1938. James left the band and started his own band in 1939. After a slow start and few bookilngs due to the very fast, loud and strictly jazz oriented charts they didn't get the posh bookings in night clubs and high buck hotels. James hit it big commercially with the Judy Garland hit "You Made Me Love You" in 1941 which ultimately sold more than Garland's version. From there it was easy street with more commercial big band and vocal hit records than even Glenn Miller. James married the top movie star of the time, Betty Grable. Their life was like a Cinderella strory for years. James fell out of favor with jazz purists when he became the great commercial success, however, the real criltics knew the band was essentially a great jazz band. James regrouped with a new set of arrangers in 1957 and pushed his jazz side to the top. Concerts, national tours and recordings followed and then world tours. James really had nothing to prove to anyone. He was his own man and anyone, I mean anyone who knew anything about top musicianship, ability, style and drawing power knew Harry was the tops. He had demons but ilt never affected his playing. Ask former James sideman and Trumpet Herald ace contributor, Tony Scodwell. He can describe much better than I the position Harry James held with his peers. None other than Doc Serverinsen considered Harry the best that ever picked up the horn. The fact remains that in a day when a pop singer has probably three to six years of immense following (rockers and country genre), the very best singers like Frank Sinatra, Nat King Cole, Perry Como, Bing Crosby, Tony Bennett, Mel Torme, Rosemary Clooney, Judy Garland, Sarah Vaughan and Ella Fitzgerald, to name just a few, had careers that lasted decades and never diminished except for an untimely death like country super stars Jim Reeves and Patsy CLine whose CDs still sell tremendously today. Harry James had a successful career that lasted 44 years, filling concert halls, clubs and dance halls to the very end. My only point is, few if any muscal star has had the ups and downs of a career and personal life that would match the life of Harry James. I suggest you get the book TRUMPET BLUES and learn more about a real star!
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Beach Blanket Bingo" was very popular, too. Maybe they'll do that.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember going to see "Bucket of Blood' at least 5 times. That must have been a huge hit.

Cost 50 cents too.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

toughcritic wrote:



Are you trying to tell me that the Glennn Miller Story, the Benny Goodman Story and the Gene Krupa Story were not major hits?


I think you've answered your own question.

You are correct. They WERE major hits. A very LONG time ago.... As in back when music stores sold more accordions than electric guitars. Sorry.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Gene Krupa Story was on TCM last week and also a month or so ago.
It is a very entertaining movie. Sal Mineo did an excellent job playing the part of Krupa.
My Dad was a big fan of Krupa , and I actually got to meet him in Atlantic City many many years ago. he was working there with his quartet. He was a really amazing drummer , not only in the technique department but he was very musical.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Movies are produced by people who remain keenly aware of what sells. As of October, 2008, there's not a single biopic about a musician among 343 highest grossing films of all time. You can check it out if you like at Internet Movie Data Base http://www.imdb.com/boxoffice/alltimegross?region=world-wide

Even teriffic movies like "Ray" and "I Walk the Line" couldn't crack the list. Going back further "Amadeus" didn't make it either. The fact is biopics are a tough sell because if the subject is well known the audience expects a certain story arc which tends to dissuade writers and directors who want more creative freedom.

A good question might be, "Why no picture about Frank Sinatra, arguably the most popular musician of the past 100 years?" Aside from the fact that his executors would want full control and the result would be pablum, the real answer is most movie fans find biopics boring no matter who's being depicted.

So I wouldn't look for a movie about Harry James anytime soon. Even though I'd love to see a depiction of his early days with a circus band or Madonna cast as Betty Grable.
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