It's over - thanks guys

[Matt Graves]

What a shame you are back in Australia. I am only about a 15 minute drive from Jerry Callet. Oh, well. Would have loved to help you.
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BAC Custom Dream Trumpet

[spitvalve]

Been at it forty-one years. It has brought me a pittance of an income, angry neighbors, angry in-laws, and a total inability to succeed at anything practical due to spending most of my youth and young and middle adult life in music instead of law, or medicine, or engineering, or plumbing. And the frustration continues, because now I'm trying to make it as a writer.

But it has given me a lot of joy, because it's something I can do that not everyone can, and even though the artistic, financial, and physical frustration continues, it's in my soul and I keep whacking away at it if only for the sake of those shining moments when all of the practice and study and listening come together and I do something that brings a thrill to whoever is listening, even if it's just my wife and kids.

But to each his own, Ralph--hope you haven't felt those four years were completely wasted, and that you find something you can do that really floats your soul's boat. There are other instruments and/or creative activities out there--perhaps one of them is calling to you.
_________________
Bryan Fields
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1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces

[Trptbenge]

Bryan, what you said is so true. I am comeback player who started playing again after 20 + years. The first few years I thought there was an easy way to improve and then I thought if I only had the right horn or mouthpiece I was sure to improve.

Finally, I discovered there is a simple way, in concept, but difficult in execution. Practice, practice and practice the right things and the things that are most difficult for me. I will never be a professional but in the amature groups I play in I am getting more and more first trumpet parts.
I have a daily warm-up and routine and follow it religiously. I know now that if my lips are stiff or aren't responding well I'll need to spend a little more time on my warm up. I am having such a blast playing now days.

I hope that whatever you do Ralph you enjoy it. Because it is no fun just to struggle and dislike what you are doing.

Good Luck!

Mike

[lubonv]

Hey, I wonder how all this good supposedly non/TCE guys arrived down here on this topic all at once. Do you check this forum so often? Or you make searches with keywords such as 'help' 'giving up' 'goodbye' etc.? or what?

Just curious....

Lb
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[Dan O'Donnell]

Ralph,

I agree with Al...DO NOT judge your ability to play Trumpet based on your consistancy of playing high notes!!!

After privately studying with Wayne Bergeron...talking with Chris Botti, Doc Severinson, Rick Braun, Rick Baptist, Tony Guererro, Chuck Mangione, Dan Oxley etc. etc. etc. and investigating the impacts of equipment on my playing...I now firmly believe (2) things...

1.) There is MUCH more to enjoy playing Trumpet than high notes.

2.) There are physical limitations (in both the human body & equipment) that prevent ALL Trumpet players from equally playing at the same range.

Playing high notes has MUCH more to do with your God given physical features of your teeth, lips etc. than how diligent you are practicing, talent etc. etc. etc.

This alone has helped me to undertsand my personal limitations...stop being frustrated...focus on tone quality & musicality...play the music I like...and ultimately enjoy my (25)+ years of playing!

If you can play notes with a nice tone quality...with some musicality...after only (4) years of playing...I would consider you to be successful!

As for my advice...

1.) Go easy on yourself and don't judge yourself too harshly! Wynton once said "The hardest part of playing the trumpet is the first 10 years!".

2.) If you are not having fun playing Trumpet...try to have fun by playing easier music that you enjoy versus always striving to meet your expectations that are possibly set too high. Playing along with the written music books that coem with background orchestration can be much more fun than scales, long tones, lip flexibility studies etc. etc. etc.

3.) Take it slow and easy...Trumpet playing should be fun NOT a contest to see who can play the highest note!
_________________
God Bless,
Dan O'Donnell

"Praise Him with the sound of the Trumpet:..."
Psalms 150:3

[AYates]

I understand your feelings, but many players have had the same thoughts at one time or another. You love music, right? You'll be back.....and the trumpet will be waiting for you. Sometimes it takes time away from what we love before we realize how much we love it. Try to meditate and be quiet with yourself.......listen to your heart and soul. Good luck with your journey.
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[Hack001]

[slide911]

"NO disrespect, but Callet's method is one of the most bizarre, unorthodox methods out there. Why not find a more traditional-type teacher and see how that works?"

I couldn't agree more with this. I took lessons from Callet and from Bahb and was frustrated, sounded terrible, and was unhappy. I went back to what felt good, got a great teacher, and I couldn't be happier. If you are giving up because you could not master this method, that is a shame. I agree with the suggestion of finding a traditional teacher, and staying with it.
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1921 Conn 80A Cornet
1934 King Silvertone Cornet
1951 Martin Committee Trumpet

[lubonv]

[goldenhornplayer]

I must say that it distresses me to hear players referring to the Callet way of playing as bizarre. Frankly, I thought we were past that. Sure, many thought like that years ago but there are just too many great players now who are previous or current Callet students. In fact, I would even go so far as to say that all great trumpeters, who have a powerful sound with core, center, and focus, use their tongues to great advantage. The only question is the exact way in which they utilize the tongue and to what degree they let the tongue do the work. I would quickly agree that Jerome takes this to a much higher level than typically understood by the trumpet-playing community at large. I, in no way, believe that should be considered as strange and certainly not bizarre. This is simply based on the physical fact that the tongue is an extremely strong and versatile muscle and can be trained to do the "heavy lifting" in playing the trumpet. On the other hand, I would be the first to say that this approach is not always the easiest or most natural way to learn to play. But for those who dedicate themselves to this and stick with it, the rewards can be very great indeed. --Ken B.

[con brio]

[tptptp]

Posted: 11 Dec 2008 16:44 Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hack001 wrote:


no... I just click on what's new on the home page...


Ooh, good to know, thanks!

I just click on the most depressing-sounding titles. Kidding. Never give up!
_________________
Craig Mitchell

[John Mohan]

[John Mohan]

[BobList]

1. Did you tell Callet about your decision?, and if so, what did he say?
2. Do you feel that you were one of those guys who over analyzed your
own playing? ( note that word starts with ANAL ) :^)
3. Buy a 'bone....learn the positions....might work wonders later on.
4. ummmm.... don't try " Use THIS guy's method, it's better"...... even Without a teacher, a self taught player should be able to make some kinda music.
5. Lastly, did you set your goals too high?.. a good teacher can answer that questin for you... go back and see #1, or use another pro to advise you.

Bob List
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http://gregblackmouthpieces.com/personal.htm

[tptguy]

John, If you get into your typical Callet bashing I’ll have to delete it. But perhaps we can keep you on target a little while for some actual, honest discussion. Surely, you aren’t saying that after 4 years of studying with Mr. G that every player was at a consistent, pro level. Not only are there many hundreds, if not thousands of examples of struggling students after 4 or more years with the CG system, I was actually one of them (until Mr. Callet fixed me). Perhaps you are telling us that you do a better job than Mr. G. himself so these hundreds or thousands of examples don’t count (see anecdote below).

I noted that you granted the CG system a 5th year before moving on. Is that 5th year of special significance? Or, are you granting that longer term commitment and dedication are required of most? As you studied 14 years with Mr. G., how many of those were needed before most pros would consider you at a consistent, pro level? Is that time frame typical? Does it matter how many lessons you actually took in that time span? As this player lives in Australia, should we ask how many lessons he actually took? Should we inquire about any special problems he brought to the table? Or does none of this matter? You like to bring up your example of a Callet student you met in Europe, but you’ve never said how long this person studied or how many lessons he had. Nor have you ever given us the name so we can find out if the person actually ever studied with Mr. C. Is it your opinion that none of this matters? This player in Europe says he studied the Callet system but he didn’t garner your respect. Can I also use a sampling of 1 to dismiss Mr. G? Can I use myself? Perhaps we should only use Mr. G’s success stories. Then, do we continue dismissing the many hundreds of successes that directly contribute their improvements to Mr. C. because you aren’t in Vegas, NY, Philly, etc to meet them? Do we dismiss you offhand because it’s unlikely any of these players have heard of you? Lastly, should we dismiss Mr. G because you also are going into another field after playing trumpet professionally?

In seeing the remarks here of people saying “my system is better than yours”, I’m reminded of a funny situation that actually happened to me. I was playing next to someone who had taken about 4 lessons with Mr. X, one of the well-known teachers with a dedicated forum here on TH. I was struggling with range and endurance, as I usually did back then. He turned and said very sincerely, “I can fix your problems.” I asked how and he pointed out that he studied with Mr. X and now knew “how to do it”. I said, “Do you really think you can do a better job after 4 lessons with Mr. X than Mr. X himself has done during my 14 years of direct study with him!”

CG has been around a long time so it should have successes to count. But certainly, it has many failures too. As in every system, important factors differ with each individual. I would be extremely wary of anyone that misses that.

Best to all, Kyle

[trumpelicious]

Well, I am surprised at the number of replies. Thanks all for your words. I don't know. Today I took all my trumpets and mouthpieces and mutes and books to my old trumpet teacher for him to sell. I cant justify my time on the planet doing something God has not gifted me at. It has brought a lot of hard times to my life. If it were another activity which I said that I spent 1 hour of every day doing without missing [with not an ounce of enjoyment] most people would say I'm nuts. I am a quite a good blues guitarist so I believe in music. It is not just the tone and range and consistency. I cant understand how to improvise and I find reading music very hard. I can improvise on my guitar without even thinking about it, in fact I don't even know what notes I am playing. I would hate to continue only to [ in 2, 5, 10 or 20 years] wish I had given up when I did. I have only 1 life to live and I want to make it count. Of course I could become better at it in that time but I don't think I can take that gamble.
Ralph

[tptguy]

<<Callet's method is one of the most bizarre, unorthodox methods out there>>

It's true that highly successful trumpet playing is not as simple as putting the horn to face and blowing air. This is proven every day. Then again, as Lubonv's recent story about Bill Houghton shows, it's not so bizarre as to prevent thousands of players from "finding the knack" to a highly competent degree all on their own. And, as my inquiries here on TH as well as live with many players have shown me, some find the the knack regardless of what system they were taught. Going right at the knack surely is not bizarre. And as its success spreads, it is considered unorthodox less and less often.

I think all successful MSC players will agree, the "secret" is simply to not overdue the essential tongue wedge and not under-do. Of course, as the original poster indicates, the process of finding this balance can be highly frustrating. I know I didn't find it fully in 4 years. Direct lessons with someone who has mastered it are often necessary. And, this can be difficult to arrange. Nonetheless, as successful MSC players will also agree, it's overwhelming worth it! For most of us, it unlocks achievement never before thought possible.

Best regards, Kyle

[Bruin]

Ralph,

Hey, man. We all just want you to be happy. If trying to learn the trumpet has caused you that much frustration and pain, and little or no enjoyment, like I said in my 1st post it's time for you to move on.

Some instruments, IMHO, are just easier than others to learn, for a variety of reasons. I think that if you're having a very difficult time learning how to read music and play scales, intervals, arpeggios, etc., then I think it would be extremely difficult for you to progress on trumpet. But, I would defer to all the trumpet teachers in here who know best.

It sounds like you're more of an ear player, and you get more immediate results on guitar by using this method of learning. So, why fight it any longer. If you want to excel on the guitar, then that's what you should do.

Best of luck, Ralph.
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[tptguy]

Ralph to Ralph, well said!

- Kyle