Brass vs. Silver Horns

[trum500]

I am currently looking for a more professional trumpet. I have been hearing good things about Bach trumpets? I have also been wondering which is better Brass or Silver horns? Comments?
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Trum500

[nospacebar14]

Silver horns are generally brass horns with a layer of silver plating instead of lacquer. Usually they have a brighter tone, but whether or not they're "better" is something you have to decide for yourself.

What are you playing on right now? My advice would be to try out as many horns as you can before buying one, so that you can begin to figure out what you like and don't like in a horn. Then when you find one you like, check online to see what other people are selling the horn for so you don't get ripped off.

When it comes to actual horns, though, I'm sure there are people on the forums far more knowledgeable than me. Were you looking at a particular Bach trumpet?

[sjtrumpet]

I have to say it is up to the player. My Bb is has a Bach 37G, because it is a gold brass bell. I also play on a silver-plated Bach 229 C trumpet. Both are good in different ways. Of course, yellow brass is different than my gold brass, so I will just tell you about Gold Brass vs. Silver.

My Bb with a gold-brass bell is naturally very mellow and dark sounding. After a few years on it, I can brighten the sound as if it were silver-plated. This way, I can play either style. Again, it is up to the player. My Silver-plated C is a bit brighter, but can have a dark sound. I use this horn most often, mostly because it can produce a sound I like better.

One good thing about brass horns is they are easier to take care of. With silver one has to polish it much more often to keep from getting dirty. Also, silver plating can be a pain to take care of, whereas brass one does not have to worry about plating falling off or tarnishing as much.

I love my Bb, but if I were to get a new Bb right now, I would go with Silver plating. Gold brass can be frustrating sometimes because I cannot produce the right sound I want to. With silver plating, this becomes much more versatile. As far as a C trumpet, there is NO WAY I would ever NOT use a silver-plated one.

In regards to the model of Bachs, I would go with a 37 bell for Bb, and a 229 OR the Chicago model C trumpet. The Chicago model is the nicest standard C trumpet I have played.

Hope this helps...

[richardwy]

I read how blind tests show no difference.

I read that silver is brighter than brass.

I don't know that it matters. Others will swear that it does.

Probably depends.
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1972 Selmer Radial

[veery715]

The last consideration when buying a new horn is how it looks. How it sounds, feels in your hands and under your fingers, feels when you blow it - those are the important considerations.

Tests done by Schilke years ago revealed no appreciable difference between raw brass and plated brass. There is, however, a noticeable sound difference between those options and a lacquered (over raw brass) horn. Lacquer tends to darken the horn by suppressing the higher harmonics.

Lacquer is the easiest to maintain. Gold plate is next, but expensive and subject to scratches in the softer gold plate.

Silver plate is next; it tarnishes but that has no ill effect on the sound or playability. I have seen many a pro play an ugly tarnished silver-plated horn; the priority is on what you hear, and not what you see.

Raw brass can get ugly too, and to keep shiny is as much if not more work than polishing a silver-plated horn. Raw brass also can stain your hands, clothing, and some folks are quite sensitive to it. There is a certain amount of toxicity related to brass - it is copper and zinc and both of those elements are toxic with enough exposure.
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veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out.

[Jerry]

I think most players wear through a lacquer finish faster than they wear through a silver plated finish, yes?

[veery715]

Not sure. It probably depends on the chemistry of the person.

I figure if you play a horn enough to wear through the finish then you probably love it for reasons other than what's on the outside.
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veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out.

[teacherchops]

I happen to eat through silver faster than the lacquer. It has to do with an individuals chemistry.

[Brad361]

[Bob Stevenson]

Silver Plate is effectively maintainance free in everyday use. My Sovereign is silver plated as usually found in brass bands and is 27 years old. Apart from some wear in the places where my fingers go it looks as good as new. I have never had to use any cleaning compound other than warm detergent and sometimes a wipe over with a duster. It shows finger prints because it's shiny metal just the same as any other metalic item!

Laqueur only lasts a few years,..maybe five if you are lucky, and don't use the instrument much. Laqueur is much softer than plating and not anything like as durable.

Raw brass is potentially unpleasant to use, especially in northern european or similar climates where there is alot of both industrial pollution and dampness, and will darken very soon after cleaning unless you use a light furniture polish. In addition, some skin is particularly sensitive to brass and will develop a rash formerly known as 'brass canker'. Brass also has a very strong odour on the skin which smells differently according to person and which many find unpleasant.

The reported difference in sound characteristics between plating, laqueur and naked brass can be ignored by most players for most purposes.

[DaveH]

The finish is the player's choice, and most research I have seen lately indicates it is just about all up to the preference of the player with little, if any, other consequence. Personal body chemistry is probably the only factor of any significance in considering the finish, with some people having sensitivities or allergies affected by the finish.

IMO, tone quality, response, and other important playing characteristics are far more affected by other variables, such as the choice of mouthpiece, the player's own physical characteristics, bell weight and flare, etc.

I think most attempts to ascribe sonic differences to finish are so insignificant as to be mostly in the individual player's imagination. Especially in regard to modern instrument construction. I have both lacquer and silver plated instruments, and the sonic differences, which are very minor, are due to other things than the finish.

I personally like the look of lacquer best, especially under stage lights. But it is very much of a "to each his own" decision.

[KingSilverSonic]

My cornet has a sterling silver bell that was left in raw silver when it was refurbished over two years ago. Many told me that it would be subject to tarnish but that just didn't happen. I do note that it is kept in a case and that probably reduced the oxidation process. Around Christmas I got out some silver polish and spent all of about 2 minutes polishing the bell. When I wiped off the polish with a soft cloth it looked absolutely stunning.

Concerning the sound, when I purchased my Lawler trumpet a few years ago it arrived in raw brass. I then had it silver plated and a friend and I both felt that it was a tad brighter with the silver plate as compared to when it was in raw brass.
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Richard

Lawler C7
Burbank Benge C
Calicchio 1s/2
King Symphony 20 DB and Silver Sonic Cornet
Lawler flugelhorn
Member: Bugles Across America

[lmf]

I like silver plated horns. With today's silver polishes, you may not have to polish as often as was done years ago. Yes, they sound brighter, but choice of mouthpiece may help find a sound you are more comfortable with. All my horns are silver plate, except for my Conn Constellation cornet with lacquer.

Best wishes,

Lloyd

[trum500]

Thank You for all your suggestions, I have now decided on Purchasing a silver trumpet. My search of Brands has been narrowed down to a Bach Stradivarious or a Benge. Are these good brands? I hear both are really good.
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Trum500

[spitvalve]

[veery715]

Those are both good brands, though quite different from one another. The Bachs are mass-produced in qreater quantity, and that label has been the "industry standard" for many years. There are those who will disagree, but you will find them very popular amongst symphony orchestra trumpet players.

That said, you are making a mistake if you shop for a new horn based upon brand name. There are many, many more than just those two makers, and lots of wonderful trumpets to be had. Find a shop with a good variety, take a friend and a recording device, and play as many trumpets as you can. Base your decision on how they play, how they feel, and how they sound (in front of the horn), and not on who built it.

Record your testing and take your time to review the recordings. Do not be in a hurry - you will probably play what you buy for many years to come.
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veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out.

[shofarguy]

[jascobeck]

I hear a more round mellow tone from the lacquered brass.
My silver plate horn sounds brighter or something like that. Both horns are late 30's King Masters. They sound unique that way.
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King Silver flair '80
Conn New Wonder cornet '15
King Master cornet '37
King Master cornet '58
King marching baritone 1130 '70s

[zaferis]

I agree, the finish of the trumpet should be the last thing you consider in buying a trumpet, and possibly no consideration at all.

Unless you have a chemistry that adversely affects one or the other-some people eat away lacquer some tarnish silver. Tone, playability, tuning, mechanical quality, and cost are qualities to consider.

Bach, Benge, Yamaha, Schilke, Getzen, Kanstul, Powell, Sonare... etc. etc. Very hard to make a list, there are so many reputatble makers, and anytime I list some I go back later and realize I forgot some good ones.

Then each maker creates a variety of models, some worthy, some very specific in design, some questionable ones as well.
Go play some, record them, have another player/teacher listen, take a tuner-see if the instrument plays intune with itself...
I, personally, would direct you toward a Bach - as a young, growing player, you won't go wrong with that choice.

Only the very accomplished, sensative players MIGHT notice the difference between platings. (silver vs. lacquer)-Blind studies have shown that players can't hear the difference.
I prefer silver. I like the look and I think the amount of silver on the brass is much thinner than lacquer (basically a paint) and is a metal bonded molecularly to the brass, not laying ontop of it. Raw brass is somewhat popular with custom horns - I doubt you'd find one in a regualr music store unless someone traded one in.

I had the lacquer removed from a Flugelhorn in an attempt to liven up the vibration and get more color in the sound - I'm not sure it worked. If I could numerically explain - the improvement would be on the lines of a fraction of a percentage-if the overall sound is 100% the change was on the order of < 0.5%.
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Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman

[Tobylou8]