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etc-etc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6180
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Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:44 pm Post subject: What would turn a trumpet into a cornet? |
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As of now, a good pro quality Yamaha trumpet (such as a YTR-6335) costs almost as low as about 1/2 of the price of a good pro quality cornet (such as YCR-8335). In the 20th century the cornet and trumpet designs became closer and closer to each other. The differences are in the leadpipe and the wrap more than in anything else.
This brings a question: what would be needed to turn a YTR-6335 into a pro-level cornet without damaging the instrument?
Perhaps a Bob Reeves or GR cornet-to-trumpet mouthpiece adapter? |
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Maarten van Weverwijk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 3377
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Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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Try a Curry TC mouthpiece; they are quite amazing!
MvW. |
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Richabai Regular Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 73
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Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:47 am Post subject: |
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If you're looking to buy a trumpet and get the flexibility of a cornet-ish sound, then a Curry TF or TC, or a similarly made mouthpiece (I have a Kanstul-made Monette FLT mp) or your adapter will probably do the trick.
But if you want a cornet, buy a cornet. You can buy a brand new Getzen 3850 (I'm getting to love mine) for about the same price as that Yamaha and I'm sure that there are lots of quality used instruments to be had for even less.
Just my $.02 |
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Bob Stevenson Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 1139 Location: Essex, England
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Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:58 am Post subject: |
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......fit a long straight tapered leadpipe at least 12 inches long......fit a cornet mpc to the leadpipe,...fit a cornet players lips to the mpc,...fit a cornet players mind to the lips.........job done. |
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jazz_trpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Nov 2001 Posts: 5734 Location: Savoy, Illinois, USA
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Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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There's something to be said for using the mouthpiece to handle the switcharoo in sound -- the blow should feel different on a cornet than on a trumpet, and I'd just as soon play one horn for everything. _________________ Jeff Helgesen
Free jazz solo transcriptions! |
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etc-etc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6180
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Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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jazz_trpt wrote: | There's something to be said for using the mouthpiece to handle the switcharoo in sound -- the blow should feel different on a cornet than on a trumpet, and I'd just as soon play one horn for everything. |
If a mouthpiece switch would do the trick without using an adapter, so much the better, as an adapter introduces one more step in the air column.
Interestingly, the Conn 48A cornet and 48B trumpet were mainly different in the receiver, according to the Conn Loyalist. |
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nieuwguyski Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2002 Posts: 2346 Location: Santa Cruz County, CA
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Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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etc-etc wrote: | Interestingly, the Conn 48A cornet and 48B trumpet were mainly different in the receiver, according to the Conn Loyalist. |
There were lots of differences. The 48A was a .467" bore, while the 48B was a .458". The 48A had a dual-bore tuning slide -- .458" on top, .467" on botttom, while the 48B had a straight-bore tuning slide. The proportions were subtly different -- the valve section on the 48A was farther forward than on the 48B. The 48A had a faster bell flare than the 48B.
In short, the 48A had a completely different bore profile than the 48B. They were certainly shaped very similarly and shared styling cues like the faceted valve casings and art-deco waterkeys, as well as the beadless "Vocabell," but I would characterize them as completely different instruments.
In your original post, I submit that you're comparing apples with last year's apples. A few minutes surfing suggests that a lacquer YCR-8335 costs about $450 more than a lacquer YTR-8335. A silver YCR-6330 is listed at $284 more than a silver YTR-6335. I don't see that the YCR-6330 is offered in any finish but silver, but a lacquer YTR-6335 is but $378 cheaper than the silver-finish cornet. I think it's only fair to compare the 6000-series trumpet to the 6000-series cornet and the 8000-series trumpet to the 8000-series cornet.
While I agree with your assertion that the trumpet and cornet have undergone evolutionary convergence, the largest remaining difference seems to be one you're unwilling to change: the leadpipe (since changing it would involve major surgery). Because a cornet mouthpiece shank is smaller than a trumpet mouthpiece shank, a cornet leadpipe can start with a smaller venturi and allow for more "conicality" before the tuning slide.
I don't agree with you on a more fundamental level: In my opinion, used cornets are cheaper than used trumpets of equivalent quality, so why obsess about how to turn trumpets into cornets? _________________ J. Notso Nieuwguyski |
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damo_4701 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Posts: 503 Location: Back in OZ now.
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:15 am Post subject: Re: What would turn a trumpet into a cornet? |
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etc-etc wrote: | This brings a question: what would be needed to turn a YTR-6335 into a pro-level cornet without damaging the instrument? |
A couple of weeks on ebay.......
Seriously, if you want a cornet sound....get a cornet. _________________ 2007 Eclipse MR
50's Getzen super deluxe tone balanced cornet
37' Buescher Aristocrat
53' LA Olds Ambassador cornet
64' Conn 22B victor
eclectic tastes |
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cjl Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2005 Posts: 2421 Location: TN
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lyndon153 Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Apr 2007 Posts: 129 Location: Rochester, NY, USA
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Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:21 am Post subject: get a cornet |
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I couldn't agree more. I love my new Getzen 3850s as well.
I thought that by design the trumpet and cornet were different animals; with the trumpet as a cylindrical tubing and the corent with a conical shape. And that was the reason for the deeper sound and more harmonics from the cornet, and the sweeter sound from the trumpet ?
BTW, I love the way the my 3850 puts the "bite" into trumpet pieces. Some one is going to have to drag me away from it back to my Bach Strad. (Although, I do still play the Strad where I need to blend in more.)
But then, I'm just an amature player.
--Lyndon
Richabai wrote: | If you're looking to buy a trumpet and get the flexibility of a cornet-ish sound, then a Curry TF or TC, or a similarly made mouthpiece (I have a Kanstul-made Monette FLT mp) or your adapter will probably do the trick.
But if you want a cornet, buy a cornet. You can buy a brand new Getzen 3850 (I'm getting to love mine) for about the same price as that Yamaha and I'm sure that there are lots of quality used instruments to be had for even less.
Just my $.02 |
_________________ 1995 Getzen Eterna 850S Bb cornet, .464" bore, MP:GR66#6, Wicks#4
1975 Bach Strad Model 37 ML Bb Trumpet, MP:GR66m
20?? Berkley Music C/Bb Pocket Trumpet, MP:Bach3c
1918 Henri Gautier "Virtuso" Bb cornet, MP:Bach 3c
====================== |
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allstarbugler Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2004 Posts: 1350 Location: Philadelphia
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Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 5:53 pm Post subject: What would turn a trumpet into a cornet |
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What would turn a lawnmower into a hedgetrimmer? |
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plp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 7023 Location: South Alabama
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Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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As suggested above, just try a different mouthpiece. The Bach 5V or 5A will mellow the sound right out, or a Warburton BC top (in your choice of diameter) on a trumpet backbore will also do the job. _________________ Since all other motives—fame, money, power, even honor—are thrown out the window the moment I pick up that instrument..... I play because I love doing it, even when the results are disappointing. In short, I do it to do it.” Wayne Booth |
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lmf Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 May 2007 Posts: 2190 Location: Indiana USA
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Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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Keep the trumpet and continue to use it as a trumpet.
Buy a cornet (used or new) and enjoy.
You can switch back and forth as your musical needs dictate.
Modifying your trumpet to resemble a cornet sound won't stop the "urge" to own a "real" cornet, nor will it be a "real" cornet in my opinion.
Folks here have given you good examples of cornets to try and buy should you decide to move in that direction.
Best wishes,
Lloyd |
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shastastan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2004 Posts: 1405 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: What would turn a trumpet into a cornet? |
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damo_4701 wrote: | etc-etc wrote: | This brings a question: what would be needed to turn a YTR-6335 into a pro-level cornet without damaging the instrument? |
A couple of weeks on ebay.......
Seriously, if you want a cornet sound....get a cornet. |
Ditto. You can get a Yamaha student cornet 2330 II for less than the cost of a Monette trumpet mp. The sound you will get is close to the higher priced cornets. I have had both and I now play a Getzen 3850. Yes, it's a better quality horn but the 2330 II is just as much "fun" to play. |
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Capt.Kirk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 5792
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Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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Longer leadpipe with more taper is a good place to start. Continueing that taper through the main tuneing slide would be another great way to go. Add a faster taper tothe throat of the trumpets bell and their you go! The steped bore Leadpipe I think is already made by M/K draeing I believe. They also would have a leadpipe thatis longer and has more taper to it. Add a deeper V style mouthpiece tot he mix and theiryou go! The slide is a no brainer if they make it direct swap. The leadpipe you will need to have installed if youc annot do it yourself. I would leave the bell alone since this would up the cost a lot. I might also do this on a YTR 4335 since they are cheaper and come with a heavy weight gold brass bell and will lend themselfs to the darker and more melodic sound of a cornet once the other changes are made! Mind you this is all theory but it is grounded in solid practical idea's based on playing botha cornet and trumpet. You might have to have the bell tail shortened as you increase the length of the leadpipe itis all going to depend on what intonation issues crop up. You can buy a generic replacement Cornet leadpipe from Votaw Tools for under $35 I think. It comes filled with pitch so you can bend it but if you where going to put it on a trumpet you wouldnot need to bend it. Also you wouldhave to decide if you wanted to use a cornet shank recivr or a trumpet style one. _________________ The only easy day was yesterday! |
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Scorpion Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Sep 2007 Posts: 1960 Location: hell
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Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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you've gotten some good advice here. I would stick with getting the curry TC or TF. However, that is more of a compromise than a solution. I think You're best bet, if you're looking for a specifically cornet sound, is to wait a while for a good used one to pop up at a reasonable price. _________________ -GET OVER HERE!
-1964 Olds Super Balanced Depleted Uranium single flue Harpoon (w/custom coprion hand guard i got from a 1925 Conn Erradicator.) Akright converted handle w/calfskin grip (143xx) |
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hiandlo Veteran Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2005 Posts: 159 Location: Saratoga, NY
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Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 2:53 pm Post subject: Trumpet to Cornet |
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I bought a flugelhorn to trumpet adapter and sometimes use my Stork 6FL flugelhorn mouthpiece with the trumpet. I found it gives a much warmer sound to any of my trumpets, even the brightest sounding horns. But I had the most success using it with the UMI Benge, which is a large bore trumpet. (By the way, I also own a cornet, not an expensive one and use a Stork Vacchiano 3C cornet mouthpiece with it.......Nice sound! And this is a Bach student model cornet). _________________ Bach "Big Apple" M37 Strad trumpet
Getzen 3001 LE Doc Severinsen model
Bach Strad M37 cornet
Schilke B7
DEG Signature model cornet
"Those who fail to prepare should prepare to fail" |
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deejaymushone Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2012 Posts: 115 Location: Flatbush
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Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:28 pm Post subject: Conn 48A vs Conn 48B |
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nieuwguyski wrote: | There were lots of differences. The 48A was a .467" bore, while the 48B was a .458". The 48A had a dual-bore tuning slide -- .458" on top, .467" on botttom, while the 48B had a straight-bore tuning slide. The proportions were subtly different -- the valve section on the 48A was farther forward than on the 48B. The 48A had a faster bell flare than the 48B.
In short, the 48A had a completely different bore profile than the 48B. They were certainly shaped very similarly and shared styling cues like the faceted valve casings and art-deco waterkeys, as well as the beadless "Vocabell," but I would characterize them as completely different instruments. |
Ty for that useful info above. But - more importantly - do you, or does anyone, know if the 48A & B differ in sound, if played with the same mouthpiece cup, & similar style backbores ?
Ty in advance - !
Jeremy Mush1 _________________ 1924 Besson Rapuwano
1941 Martin HCI / 1949 Committee Deluxe
1947 Chicago Benge
Conn 1929 2B / 1924 22B / 1934 8B / 1956 10B / 1967 20A / 1958 38B / 1952 48B
1965 Olds Recording
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC1993QIK7E |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9005 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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You realise this thread is at least a decade old? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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deejaymushone Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2012 Posts: 115 Location: Flatbush
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Posted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | You realise this thread is at least a decade old? |
Proudly bringing dead threads back to life !
Jeremy Mush1 _________________ 1924 Besson Rapuwano
1941 Martin HCI / 1949 Committee Deluxe
1947 Chicago Benge
Conn 1929 2B / 1924 22B / 1934 8B / 1956 10B / 1967 20A / 1958 38B / 1952 48B
1965 Olds Recording
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC1993QIK7E |
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