Brass Poisoning?

[jscratch]

Don't know if this is really relevant to the topic, but whatevs. My last horn (which I loved), due to old age and much use was without most of its original lacquer and was mostly raw brass on the outside. Every time I played it, my hands would turn green for a couple hours. I joked with my friends that I would rub the horn all over my body and go to Halloween as the Incredible Hulk.

[ConnArtist]

Does getting nauseous over the continued (every three weeks or so on the TH!) discussion of the remote potential for brass poisoning count as brass poisoning?

Other than that, I have not suffered any form of brass poisoning from my two raw horns.
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"Stomvi" PhrankenPhlugel w/ Blessing copper bell
1958 Conn 18A cornet
1962 Conn 9A cornet (yes, the Unicorn )
Reynolds Onyx cornet
c. 1955? Besson 10-10 trumpet
1939 Martin Imperial Handcraft “Model 37”
1986 Bach Strad 37 ML

[Capt.Kirk]

Don Lee, Your in California notice I said my son's school. We are in Michigan and I was talking about one area not the entire world! I know the allergy exists. Like wise we know Brass poisoning can happen but they are both fairly rare! Have you ever seen a person go into anaphlactic shock from brass poisoning? If not get over yourself. Sorry you have relatives with peanut allergies still does not make it common. Their is a reason why roasted nuts are popular at Bar's,Truck Stops,Gas stations,Base Ball parks which is the national pass time, in cookies, cakes and brownies, pastries, the side of the road int he south and in sandwich's etc........It is because most people are not allergic to peanuts. You can be allergic to anything but that does not make it common which was my point! I am allergic to Sulphates added to wine in the USA but obviously most people are not or the wine industry in the USA would be in sad shape. Just because I am allergic to it does not make it common! So get over yourself my comparison between brass poisoning and peanut butter allergy was a valid comparison.

Allergies to shell fish,bee stings,sulfa drug's, penicillian, Soy Proteins, rag weed,dust mites and a host of other things are far far more common yet we do not make a big deal out of them we deal with them and move on.

So has anyone on this site ever known anyone to suffer from brass poisoning? IF not then we still have nothing to worry about.


As to what cause's allergies besides genetic flaws which is an old outdated model I suggest you look into Allergen load models. We can all become allergic to anything at any point and time. At some point we reach a limit of how many allergens our immune system can handle and bam we have issues. Many are starting to think it is based on all the chemicals in our environment and their effect on Epi Genetics I hope I got that spelled right! You can actually train your immune system not to be allergic to things that you are currently allergic to but it takes time and injections on a regular basis. I have only had allergies for the last 5 years the things I am allergic to where things I had taken many times in my life over the years. Now I can not drink whine or eat any thing with sulphites or sulphartes. Sulfa Drugs are an issue and even some HCI products can be problems depending on how my liver cleaves the HCI portion of the drug. One way you get sulfa byproducts another way you do not!On the other hand organic sulfur does not cause me any issues at all!

Where you niece and nephew live and what chemicals their mother was exposed to as a child and adult has more then anything to do with their allergies!

I have an Uncle that worked in San Fransisco near the Warf. He ate sea food daily for lunch for 35 years every single day then one day he had an allergic reaction to shellfish! So badgering me about allergen models and realatives that currently are unlucky enough to have an issue with peanut butter does not in any way detract from my origanal post. The idea is stillthe same.
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The only easy day was yesterday!

[Don Lee]

[Don Herman rev2]

[etc-etc]

In brass repair or making the brass instruments ... can you imagine how much raw brass do they handle?

[Retlaw]

Every day there are new discoveries.....lead paint is gone...... for of course the right reason. Won't be long folks and there will be a global directive from the PC elected to ban the manufacture of all new brass instruments. If we are lucky we will be able to keep our vintage horns ...if they are coated with ten layers of whatever....after that it will be another acceptable material required... How about "Transparent Alumina" which would show all the inner workings of the horn...valve alignment, the dreaded Bach blobs and of course the time for a chem clean....no secret tweaks here..... then again perhaps a Metamaterial (used for invisible cloaking) for both trumpet and clothing....people would only know you are playing by the sound...no showing off your latest squeeze. Amorphous metal (metalic glass) is my favorite ...beautiful disordered atomic structure....but we would have endless threads about how to keep fingerprints off the surface.... or how do I strip the mirror finish and get a "raw" look.....

Oh yeah the thread.... I think that until there is a medical directive to not play a raw brass horn.. I will continue..... but I agree I would not use a raw brass mouthpiece..... At the end of the day there may be some small risk...especially to the "acidic perspirers" but for most it would seem that the odds of brass poisoning are very small.... .....I hope.

Walter

[jkarnes0661]

Just to clarify, there are two different things that are being discussed here:

One is brass poisoning, which would be an acute (fairly immediate, within minutes to days) reaction to either: 1) ridiculously high levels of brass (pretty much impossible in just playing a horn, more likely for someone exposed to dust, etc.) or 2) an allergic reaction to small amounts of brass (which would be highly specific to an individual's immune system, more like the aforementioned peanut allergy which is a very real issue for many).

The other, which is highly relevant to playing a raw brass horn, is the slow accumulation of brass in body tissue (fat cells, liver, etc., kind of like mercury poisoning). This is not something you would notice until you are diagnosed with a disease like liver failure. This is unlikely to occur solely due to brass exposure given the low levels involved in touching the horn (although the green hands story gave me reason for pause) but its an additive effect along with all the other stuff we're exposed to in our daily lives.

I think those of us advocating some caution on using raw brass horns are concerned with the latter long-term issue, not the former acute illness which would be readily apparent.

That said, who wants to live forever? I'll continue to limit my risk by limiting hand contact using laquer, plating, or another barrier like gloves, but raw brass wouldn't (and hasn't!) stop me from buying a horn I thought sounded great.
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Jonathan Karnes
Grand Rapids, MI
jonathankarnes.com