• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Would you guys consider trading a NY Bach for a Brand new


Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
trumpetera
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 1214
Location: Gothenburg,Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:19 am    Post subject: Would you guys consider trading a NY Bach for a Brand new Reply with quote

Kanstul Chicago 1000?

The Bach basically just lies around not being played, and the Chicago is a very nice horn!

Input, please!
_________________
Principal trumpet Gothenburg Opera Orchestra
Bach LT 37 Bb (Mr. Findleys old)
Bach Mt Vernon 1957 Bb
Bach NY ML 1943 vintage Bb
Very old YTR-6335
Bach/Malone/Lechner C
Malone-Bach 229 C
H.Ganter Bb
Schagerl Wienna (older model) C
Parker Natural
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
BenH
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 848
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What value do you put on the Bach? If the person you're trading it to would get a lot of use out of it, and you would get a lot of use out of the Kanstul, why not? You might lose on a purely financial level, but if everyone's happy with the horn they have and you're not looking at it as an investment, who cares?
_________________
Schilke B1
Couesnon flugelhorn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Retlaw
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 3263
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't seem like a good swap to me.... not about the quality of Kanstul ...just the value of the Bach ..if in good condition it would be much more valuable than the Kanstul....

Walter
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pocket Monkeys
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 Nov 2007
Posts: 598

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. People get crazy about old Bachs. You could back over that Bach with your car and still get $2000 for it. I wouldn't do a horn for horn trade.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John Mock
Veteran Member


Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 336
Location: near Harrisburg, PA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm not particularly a "Bach fan" so if I felt a brand new Kanstul Chicago 1000 would meet my needs more than a Bach, I'd trade the Bach in a heartbeat--but financially you will come out better by selling the Bach outright.

To me it has more to do with the sound concept I'm going after, and my approach to playing, than the value of an old but collectable horn.

I have to be happy with how the horn I'm using plays for me. If I'm not completely happy, then it doesn't matter how much money it's worth--I'm going to trade it for something that makes me happy. If it doesn't play well then it's just a used horn.

A year ago I got a steal on a new UMI Benge 3X at a sale price that was about 9 years old--but then a year later, when I test played a new Kanstul Fr. Besson International and it played better, and I was able to do an even-up trade on my mint but highly retail valued UMI Benge, it did not matter that the store was "allowing" me about half of the money that I had in the UMI Benge 3X, all that mattered was I was getting a brand new Kanstul that played better for me, and I didn't have to spend any more money out of pocket.

The UMI Benge 3X can be a decent horn; mine was just fine. However, I would expect the Kanstul Chicago 1000 to be a terrific horn!

The question I'd have is what will you be using the new trumpet for? The 3X/Chicago 1000 can be a great all-around horn--and people do use it for that purpose--but it also excels as a "lead" horn--and some other people prefer the Chicago 1001. If I had the chance, I would try several Kanstul models including especially the 1600 and 1601 before finalizing my choice.

John
_________________
Kanstul 1500 trumpet
Kanstul 800-2
GR WB Classic and Studio M mouthpieces


Last edited by John Mock on Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:29 am; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Retlaw
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 3263
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mock wrote:
Well, I'm not particularly a "Bach fan" so if I felt a brand new Kanstul Chicago 1000 would meet my needs more than a Bach, I'd trade the Bach in a heartbeat.

To me it has more to do with the sound concept I'm going after, and my approach to playing, than the value of an old but collectable horn.

I have to be happy with how the horn I'm using plays for me. If I'm not completely happy, then it doesn't matter how much money it's worth--I'm going to trade it for something that makes me happy. If it doesn't play well then it's just a used horn.

A year ago I got a steal on a new UMI Benge 3X at a sale price that was about 9 years old--but then when I test played a new Kanstul Fr. Besson International and it played better, and I was able to do an even-up trade on my mint but highly retail valued UMI Benge, it did not matter that the store was "allowing" me about half of the money that I had in the UMI Benge 3X, all that mattered was I was getting a brand new Kanstul that played better for me, and I didn't have to spend any more money out of pocket.

The UMI Benge 3X can be a decent horn; mine was just fine. However, I would expect the Kanstul Chicago 1000 to be a great horn!

I'm definitely an "out with the old, in with the new" type.

John


I don't doubt that a Kanstul horn might be good...maybe even better than a "Vintage NY Bach"....but surely money comes into it....

Walter

Sell your NY in marketplace for $3000.00 and then go and buy the Kanstul and have a holiday as well
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John Mock
Veteran Member


Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 336
Location: near Harrisburg, PA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Money does come into the equation, and with recent price increases, new Kanstuls are not inexpensive either.

But if one does not have to be in a hurry because one has a valuable commodity in the classic horn, then one can wait for a suitable offer--or as Walter said--try to sell it outright for whatever the market will bear.

John
_________________
Kanstul 1500 trumpet
Kanstul 800-2
GR WB Classic and Studio M mouthpieces
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12706
Location: Gardena, Ca

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not in a straight trade.

I might trade with the Kanstul owner paying a reasonable amount to make up the difference in monetary value.

Or sell the Bach and purchase the Kanstul.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
bigdanv
Veteran Member


Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 213

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From a financial standpoint, you will lose in a trade. If I were you, I would sell the Bach and buy the Kanstul, and in all likelihood you'll have some cash left over. Win/win.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tom turner
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 6648
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sell the NYB on ebay . . . with great photos included and a great text to accompany the ad, then buy a couple or three horns with the proceeds.

T.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
trumpetera
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 1214
Location: Gothenburg,Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seriously!?

I had no idea! Horns are pretty expensive here in Sweden, so I thought the deal I got from a local shop was ok!

I'll give the market place or the unmentionable bay a serious thought!

Thanks for the advices, guys!
_________________
Principal trumpet Gothenburg Opera Orchestra
Bach LT 37 Bb (Mr. Findleys old)
Bach Mt Vernon 1957 Bb
Bach NY ML 1943 vintage Bb
Very old YTR-6335
Bach/Malone/Lechner C
Malone-Bach 229 C
H.Ganter Bb
Schagerl Wienna (older model) C
Parker Natural
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Bruin
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 1346
Location: L.A. area

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you talking about the modern Bach NY Strad #7, or a vintage Bach NY Strad? I've never played the Kanstul 1000, but I would personally have a very difficult time trading or selling the 1942 NY Strad that my friend once lent me. It is a very special horn. You can always find and buy a Kanstul 1000.
_________________
'64 Conn Connstellation 38B
Jupiter 846S flugelhorn
CarolBrass Mini Pocket Trumpet
Schilke 17& 17D4d4 trumpet mpcs
Schilke 17F flugelhorn mpc
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bill Blackwell
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 1020
Location: Southern CA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my personal opinion most modern professional level horns (Kanstul in particular) are much better than virtually any vintage horn. So in a trade situation it is debatable who would win out.

In any case, if I had a horn (vintage or otherwise) that didn't particularly work for me I would sell it and use the proceeds on one that does.

OTOH - I wouldn't even consider a trade unless (1) I received equal value in return, and (2) I was absolutely sure the horn I ended up with was going to work for me.
_________________
Bill Blackwell
Founder - Sons of Thunder Big Band Machine

Wild Thing Bb - Copper
Wild Thing Flugelhorn - Copper
Wild Thing Short-Model Cornet - Copper

The future ain't what it used to be. ...
- Yogi Berra
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Capt.Kirk
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 5792

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would I consider it sure but that does not mean I would do it. First are you useing the horn as a tool or is it just collecting dust? If it is collecting dust is it because you like collecting horns that you will seldom use for the purpose of collecting them which is ok we all have hobbies or is it collecting dust because it does not do what youneed it to do? Does it have any sentimental value? How badly do you want the new horn? No one can make up your mind for you or at least you shouldnot let any one do that it shhould be your decision.

For instance I bought two Reynolds Medalist trumpets. One of them is my son's work trumpet for school and the other one I bought with the expressed intention of modifing it! I like the raw ingredients that it offered from the water keys to the super smooth valves so I did not buy them to collect them. On the other hand if I got my hands on any Holt Stratadyne it would be used regularly by me but I would buy it with the idea of perserving it as a playing work of history and artistry that is dieing off in America. SInce I would have bought it to collect and perserve I would neither modify it or sell it as that would defeat the purpose of why I bought it. Different instruments have different values to different people. I would trade almost nything I own in the way of rifles or instruments for a York AirFlow in close to mint shape mechanicaly. To other's that is a worthless horn. So you have to decide what the real,imagined/percieved value is and what the oppertunity cost is and put those on your own mental ballance and see what you get.

Good luck which ever way you go! Oh and never allow yourself to have regrets from deals you make or have made regret serves no purpose better to learn and move on then to linger and wallo in regret!
_________________
The only easy day was yesterday!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bruin
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 1346
Location: L.A. area

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill Blackwell wrote:
In my personal opinion most modern professional level horns (Kanstul in particular) are much better than virtually any vintage horn. So in a trade situation it is debatable who would win out.

In any case, if I had a horn (vintage or otherwise) that didn't particularly work for me I would sell it and use the proceeds on one that does.

OTOH - I wouldn't even consider a trade unless (1) I received equal value in return, and (2) I was absolutely sure the horn I ended up with was going to work for me.


Very good points, Bill. And, maybe there's a reason why the Bach's been out of commission for so long? If there is, then why hold on to it if you don't enjoy playing it, unless it has sentimental value to you. FWIW, I would have difficulty letting any Kanstul sit idly in the corner for any length of time.
_________________
'64 Conn Connstellation 38B
Jupiter 846S flugelhorn
CarolBrass Mini Pocket Trumpet
Schilke 17& 17D4d4 trumpet mpcs
Schilke 17F flugelhorn mpc
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
trumpetera
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 1214
Location: Gothenburg,Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again, guys!

The horn is made in 1935.

Playing the trumpet is what I do for a living. Recently, I moved from an opera orchestra to a symphony orchestra, and the playing style and acoustics of the hall of my new band is different from my old one. Therefore this horn just sits in it's case nowadays.

I do love the feel of the old NY Bachs-at least the ones I've tried- but I tend to use my slightly newer (1943) horn instead.

I like the history of them, but they are still tools.

Maybe not the best idea trading it this way, though.

Nice horns, though, the Chicago's!!
_________________
Principal trumpet Gothenburg Opera Orchestra
Bach LT 37 Bb (Mr. Findleys old)
Bach Mt Vernon 1957 Bb
Bach NY ML 1943 vintage Bb
Very old YTR-6335
Bach/Malone/Lechner C
Malone-Bach 229 C
H.Ganter Bb
Schagerl Wienna (older model) C
Parker Natural
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
razeontherock
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 10609
Location: The land of GR and Getzen

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boy, I do like those NY Bachs; at least the 2 I played. Some 25 years ago What bore are they?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
kramergfy
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 993
Location: Los Angeles, CA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the horn has suited you well in a professional opera..then I'm sure it's in good enough condition to pick up a pretty penny.
_________________
"I'm 73 and I'm still learning." - Maurice Murphy

Thread killer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John Mock
Veteran Member


Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 336
Location: near Harrisburg, PA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I gotta agree with that! Kinda missed that minor detail on first read through...
_________________
Kanstul 1500 trumpet
Kanstul 800-2
GR WB Classic and Studio M mouthpieces
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
PW-Factor
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 909
Location: Joliet, IL

PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you have 2 Pre-1950 Bachs? That's awesome! They are worth an awful lot to a lot of different people.
_________________
Ska/Reggae - The Selectones
New Orleans Funk - The Big Lagniappe

Raw Brass HB2 - Hammond PW
Gen II ACB Doubler Flugel - Curry 5FL
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group