Would you guys consider trading a NY Bach for a Brand new

trumpetera

Kanstul Chicago 1000?

The Bach basically just lies around not being played, and the Chicago is a very nice horn!

Input, please!

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Principal trumpet Gothenburg Opera Orchestra
Bach LT 37 Bb (Mr. Findleys old)
Bach Mt Vernon 1957 Bb
Bach NY ML 1943 vintage Bb
Very old YTR-6335
Bach/Malone/Lechner C
Malone-Bach 229 C
H.Ganter Bb
Schagerl Wienna (older model) C
Parker Natural

BenH · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:07 am Post subject:

What value do you put on the Bach? If the person you're trading it to would get a lot of use out of it, and you would get a lot of use out of the Kanstul, why not? You might lose on a purely financial level, but if everyone's happy with the horn they have and you're not looking at it as an investment, who cares?
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Retlaw · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:53 am Post subject:

Doesn't seem like a good swap to me.... not about the quality of Kanstul ...just the value of the Bach ..if in good condition it would be much more valuable than the Kanstul....

Walter

Pocket Monkeys · Heavyweight Member Joined: 22 Nov 2007 Posts: 598

No. People get crazy about old Bachs. You could back over that Bach with your car and still get $2000 for it. I wouldn't do a horn for horn trade.

John Mock · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:03 am Post subject:

Well, I'm not particularly a "Bach fan" so if I felt a brand new Kanstul Chicago 1000 would meet my needs more than a Bach, I'd trade the Bach in a heartbeat--but financially you will come out better by selling the Bach outright.

To me it has more to do with the sound concept I'm going after, and my approach to playing, than the value of an old but collectable horn.

I have to be happy with how the horn I'm using plays for me. If I'm not completely happy, then it doesn't matter how much money it's worth--I'm going to trade it for something that makes me happy. If it doesn't play well then it's just a used horn.

A year ago I got a steal on a new UMI Benge 3X at a sale price that was about 9 years old--but then a year later, when I test played a new Kanstul Fr. Besson International and it played better, and I was able to do an even-up trade on my mint but highly retail valued UMI Benge, it did not matter that the store was "allowing" me about half of the money that I had in the UMI Benge 3X, all that mattered was I was getting a brand new Kanstul that played better for me, and I didn't have to spend any more money out of pocket.

The UMI Benge 3X can be a decent horn; mine was just fine. However, I would expect the Kanstul Chicago 1000 to be a terrific horn!

The question I'd have is what will you be using the new trumpet for? The 3X/Chicago 1000 can be a great all-around horn--and people do use it for that purpose--but it also excels as a "lead" horn--and some other people prefer the Chicago 1001. If I had the chance, I would try several Kanstul models including especially the 1600 and 1601 before finalizing my choice.

John
_________________
Kanstul 1500 trumpet
Kanstul 800-2
GR WB Classic and Studio M mouthpieces

Retlaw · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:12 am Post subject:

John Mock · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:21 am Post subject:

Money does come into the equation, and with recent price increases, new Kanstuls are not inexpensive either.

But if one does not have to be in a hurry because one has a valuable commodity in the classic horn, then one can wait for a suitable offer--or as Walter said--try to sell it outright for whatever the market will bear.

John
_________________
Kanstul 1500 trumpet
Kanstul 800-2
GR WB Classic and Studio M mouthpieces

LittleRusty · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:25 am Post subject:

Not in a straight trade.

I might trade with the Kanstul owner paying a reasonable amount to make up the difference in monetary value.

Or sell the Bach and purchase the Kanstul.

bigdanv · Veteran Member Joined: 02 Mar 2009 Posts: 213

From a financial standpoint, you will lose in a trade. If I were you, I would sell the Bach and buy the Kanstul, and in all likelihood you'll have some cash left over. Win/win.

tom turner · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:34 am Post subject:

Sell the NYB on ebay . . . with great photos included and a great text to accompany the ad, then buy a couple or three horns with the proceeds.

T.

trumpetera · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:44 am Post subject:

Seriously!?

I had no idea! Horns are pretty expensive here in Sweden, so I thought the deal I got from a local shop was ok!

I'll give the market place or the unmentionable bay a serious thought!

Thanks for the advices, guys!
_________________
Principal trumpet Gothenburg Opera Orchestra
Bach LT 37 Bb (Mr. Findleys old)
Bach Mt Vernon 1957 Bb
Bach NY ML 1943 vintage Bb
Very old YTR-6335
Bach/Malone/Lechner C
Malone-Bach 229 C
H.Ganter Bb
Schagerl Wienna (older model) C
Parker Natural

Bruin · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:56 am Post subject:

Are you talking about the modern Bach NY Strad #7, or a vintage Bach NY Strad? I've never played the Kanstul 1000, but I would personally have a very difficult time trading or selling the 1942 NY Strad that my friend once lent me. It is a very special horn. You can always find and buy a Kanstul 1000.
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Jupiter 846S flugelhorn
CarolBrass Mini Pocket Trumpet
Schilke 17& 17D4d4 trumpet mpcs
Schilke 17F flugelhorn mpc

Bill Blackwell · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:59 am Post subject:

In my personal opinion most modern professional level horns (Kanstul in particular) are much better than virtually any vintage horn. So in a trade situation it is debatable who would win out.

In any case, if I had a horn (vintage or otherwise) that didn't particularly work for me I would sell it and use the proceeds on one that does.

OTOH - I wouldn't even consider a trade unless (1) I received equal value in return, and (2) I was absolutely sure the horn I ended up with was going to work for me.
_________________
Bill Blackwell
Founder - Sons of Thunder Big Band Machine

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Capt.Kirk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 5792

Would I consider it sure but that does not mean I would do it. First are you useing the horn as a tool or is it just collecting dust? If it is collecting dust is it because you like collecting horns that you will seldom use for the purpose of collecting them which is ok we all have hobbies or is it collecting dust because it does not do what youneed it to do? Does it have any sentimental value? How badly do you want the new horn? No one can make up your mind for you or at least you shouldnot let any one do that it shhould be your decision.

For instance I bought two Reynolds Medalist trumpets. One of them is my son's work trumpet for school and the other one I bought with the expressed intention of modifing it! I like the raw ingredients that it offered from the water keys to the super smooth valves so I did not buy them to collect them. On the other hand if I got my hands on any Holt Stratadyne it would be used regularly by me but I would buy it with the idea of perserving it as a playing work of history and artistry that is dieing off in America. SInce I would have bought it to collect and perserve I would neither modify it or sell it as that would defeat the purpose of why I bought it. Different instruments have different values to different people. I would trade almost nything I own in the way of rifles or instruments for a York AirFlow in close to mint shape mechanicaly. To other's that is a worthless horn. So you have to decide what the real,imagined/percieved value is and what the oppertunity cost is and put those on your own mental ballance and see what you get.

Good luck which ever way you go! Oh and never allow yourself to have regrets from deals you make or have made regret serves no purpose better to learn and move on then to linger and wallo in regret!
_________________
The only easy day was yesterday!

Bruin · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:12 am Post subject:

trumpetera · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:38 pm Post subject:

Thanks again, guys!

The horn is made in 1935.

Playing the trumpet is what I do for a living. Recently, I moved from an opera orchestra to a symphony orchestra, and the playing style and acoustics of the hall of my new band is different from my old one. Therefore this horn just sits in it's case nowadays.

I do love the feel of the old NY Bachs-at least the ones I've tried- but I tend to use my slightly newer (1943) horn instead.

I like the history of them, but they are still tools.

Maybe not the best idea trading it this way, though.

Nice horns, though, the Chicago's!!
_________________
Principal trumpet Gothenburg Opera Orchestra
Bach LT 37 Bb (Mr. Findleys old)
Bach Mt Vernon 1957 Bb
Bach NY ML 1943 vintage Bb
Very old YTR-6335
Bach/Malone/Lechner C
Malone-Bach 229 C
H.Ganter Bb
Schagerl Wienna (older model) C
Parker Natural

razeontherock · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:13 pm Post subject:

Boy, I do like those NY Bachs; at least the 2 I played. Some 25 years ago

What bore are they?

kramergfy · Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:20 pm Post subject:

If the horn has suited you well in a professional opera..then I'm sure it's in good enough condition to pick up a pretty penny.
_________________
"I'm 73 and I'm still learning." - Maurice Murphy

Thread killer.

John Mock · Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:08 am Post subject:

I gotta agree with that! Kinda missed that minor detail on first read through...
_________________
Kanstul 1500 trumpet
Kanstul 800-2
GR WB Classic and Studio M mouthpieces

PW-Factor · Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:28 am Post subject:

So you have 2 Pre-1950 Bachs? That's awesome! They are worth an awful lot to a lot of different people.
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