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Star1pup
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:42 am    Post subject: K-modified Reply with quote

What does K-Modified mean?
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DavesTrumpet
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Means it was a Selmer shipped to the US that had been "modified" (leadpipe installed) by Keith Eckert. I think he worked out of Elkhart, IN, or so I've been told. The horn being marketed for US trade.
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jadickson
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave is correct. My understanding is that the biggest modification was the mouthpiece receiver. Not all mouthpiece shanks have the same shape, and apparently the old French Selmer trumpets had receivers that were a bit too big for most American mouthpieces (e.g. Bach pieces). The American mouthpieces would bottom out and not be gripped by the receiver. So, he installed a receiver that fit the American mouthpieces better.

I have a ML bore (24B) circa 1967. The lacquer is worn off all over the place... she doesn't look like much, but she's got it where it counts. What a sound. Valves like greased lightning. I love it.
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Albert Parrott
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to turn this into a fan page, but yes, I love my K-Mod. It's a 24B also, about 1963 vintage. The valves are nice.

Now that the secret is out, what Selmer mouthpieces work with the K-Mod? I've never used a French Selmer mouthpiece that I can recall. I see them on ebay from time to time, but don't even know what sizes correspond to the Bach equivalents. What would a Bach 3C be in Selmer?
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Star1pup
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just bought a K-Modified 24B and can't wait for it to get here. I had a new one in about 1954 and it had a great sound. The sound of the Selmer was better than my Mendez.
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DavesTrumpet
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Albert Parrott wrote:
Not to turn this into a fan page, but yes, I love my K-Mod. It's a 24B also, about 1963 vintage. The valves are nice.

<SNIP>


I agree. I have a 60s era 24B as well and it's really fun to play. I just don't play it as often as I probably should. This was Timofei Dokshizer's horn of choice (recorded the Arutunian with it) until he switched to Benge.

I once had a long conversation with Frank Kaderabek about Dokshizer and the topic of the Selmer K came up. He said when Dokshizer would be on tour in the US in the 60s, all the symphony guys would stick around and "talk shop" with him and were all interested in the horn he was playing, the K-Modified. (I think probably a lot of them were sold because of Dokshizer). Frank told me that during this time, Selmer would ship the horn to the US without a leadpipe mounted, I think it was explained as a way to avoid import/export tarriffs. Once the horn got to the US, Eckert would mount a leadpipe, and the horn would be sold. I think this probably was done at the Bach plant. It would make sense, since by then they were owned by Selmer anyway. There was something else Eckert did to mark the exceptional playing horns, but if I told you what this was, I'd have to kill you. LOL! I don't want the prices going up on those particular models, since I don't own one, and I'd like to, though I think some people probably know which horns they were. I'll let the cat out of the bag one of these days unless someone beats me to it.
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jadickson
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Albert Parrott wrote:
Not to turn this into a fan page, but yes, I love my K-Mod. It's a 24B also, about 1963 vintage. The valves are nice.

Now that the secret is out, what Selmer mouthpieces work with the K-Mod? I've never used a French Selmer mouthpiece that I can recall. I see them on ebay from time to time, but don't even know what sizes correspond to the Bach equivalents. What would a Bach 3C be in Selmer?



I don't know if this answers your question, but there is one on eBay right now that comes with an Irving Bush mouthpiece. I have never heard of this brand but maybe it is an original vintage piece that would match this horn? Check it out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Horn-Henri-Selmer-Paris-K-Modified-24B-Trumpet_W0QQitemZ300387419387QQ



Dave -- cool story. Please post your "other secret" about this horn, I would love to know. I believe the K-mod was also Maurice Andre's Bb trumpet of choice, though I don't know how often he actually performed on a Bb.
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gelatinshoehorn
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, you're right, it's not a K-Mod fan forum. Too bad. It strikes me as a hard sell trying to convince the Bach crowd what wonderful horns they are. I just lucked into mine a number of years ago, and it's spoiled me for other instruments.
-S
ps. I love the "secret marking" thing. Makes the world of Paris Selmer seem even more mysterious and underground than it already is. Shouldn't we have a secret hand shake ?
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DavesTrumpet
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gelatinshoehorn wrote:
<SNIP>
ps. I love the "secret marking" thing. Makes the world of Paris Selmer seem even more mysterious and underground than it already is. Shouldn't we have a secret hand shake ?


You'd love the story I've heard from a colleague of mine who, when he was studying with Gilbert Mitchell, would "drive out to some place in the country" to try horns, namely Selmers, though he was a Bach player. The way he tells it, it sounds like they should have had a secret hand shake!
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Star1pup
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine is also a 24B, but I'm still waiting on it. PayPal took a long time to set up, but everything should clear tomorrow and I'll have my horn on it's way via UPS.

I played a Selmer Paris in the mid-50s and it had a great sound. Hope this one is the same.
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Star1pup
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:27 pm    Post subject: It's hear! Reply with quote

My Selmer Paris arrived today and it sounds as sweet as it looks. I was always told that my Selmer had a sweeter sound than my Mendez, but I guess that's just a matter of opinion.

Anyhow, I'm a happy trumpeter.
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Goldplate
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gelatinshoehorn wrote:
Yea, you're right, it's not a K-Mod fan forum. Too bad. It strikes me as a hard sell trying to convince the Bach crowd what wonderful horns they are. I just lucked into mine a number of years ago, and it's spoiled me for other instruments.
-S


I think I could easily be lumped into the Bach crowd, and I need no convincing about Henri Selmers. I have a '56 24B trumpet and a '64 K-Modified cornet that I use quite often. Both of them are wonderful horns.
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sunburstbasser
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always liked the way the K-Mod looks, but how is the sound? More specifically, how does it sound compared to common trumpets like Bach 37s or 72s? I've kind of wanted a K-Mod for a while, but haven't gotten to play one. Since this is sort of a fan thread, maybe you guys can enlighten me a little!
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jadickson
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sunburstbasser wrote:
I've always liked the way the K-Mod looks, but how is the sound? More specifically, how does it sound compared to common trumpets like Bach 37s or 72s? I've kind of wanted a K-Mod for a while, but haven't gotten to play one. Since this is sort of a fan thread, maybe you guys can enlighten me a little!



It's dark, but not the way your Kanstul 1600 is dark. Louis Armstrong's Selmer trumpet was the Selmer Balanced model, which was very similar to the K-Mod. That's the best I can do... it''s hard to get on an internet bulletin board and say "it sounds exactly like THIS."

I haven't played a Bach 72, but I have played several 37's both new and vintage. The K-Mod is nothing like a 37.
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Albert Parrott
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jadickson wrote:
sunburstbasser wrote:
I've always liked the way the K-Mod looks, but how is the sound? More specifically, how does it sound compared to common trumpets like Bach 37s or 72s? I've kind of wanted a K-Mod for a while, but haven't gotten to play one. Since this is sort of a fan thread, maybe you guys can enlighten me a little!



It's dark, but not the way your Kanstul 1600 is dark. Louis Armstrong's Selmer trumpet was the Selmer Balanced model, which was very similar to the K-Mod. That's the best I can do... it''s hard to get on an internet bulletin board and say "it sounds exactly like THIS."

I haven't played a Bach 72, but I have played several 37's both new and vintage. The K-Mod is nothing like a 37.


It is hard to describe a sound in words. Not to argue with jadickson, but I find my K-Mod to be a little on the bright side, so maybe it's a mouthpiece issue, or some other reason. I am not a Bach player, but do have a Holton T101, and would rate the Selmer brighter sounding to me than the T101.

The player's perception of the sound is what we are discussing, I think, and to some extent, that is influenced by the aural feedback we get as players. My K-Mod gives me a pretty good dose of feedback and maybe that is what I am calling bright. In any case, I prefer the Holton for symphonic type playing, and the Selmer for out-front, listen-to-me playing.
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sunburstbasser
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since my 1600 is an excellent fit for me, any horn I buy would have to be more specialized. It would need to do something better than my 1600, at the expense of not fitting as well in other situations. The descriptions of the K-Mod I've heard lead me to believe that it isn't too hard to get a good jazz combo sound out of it. For reference, this is what I think of when I say "jazz combo sound:"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5po44lZItQ

I can play that stuff on the 1600, but the sound just doesn't quite do it for me. It doesn't have the smoky factor (what I call it).

So, any of you guys do jazzy stuff on your K-Mods? How do you like it?

I'm pretty sure I'll own one someday; right now I'm mostly figuring out what order to buy horns in rather than which ones to buy!
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Trptbenge
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave, there were two other rumors I heard about Keith Eckerts work. First, besides the receiver he cleaned any overruns of soldering inside the horn. The second thing I read somewhere was if a horn was particularily good it would have an X on the receiver. I don't know if either one of these things are true but I have heard or read them somewhere.

I will say a great K-Modified is well, a great horn.

Mike
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MrJackson
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a '59 K large bore (25 on the receiver)
She has a real smokey sound, the sonic equivalent of a satin pillow. Real rich presence of low overtones so the sound has little bite, but rather a softer shape. Id also say that the sound seems more confined to the area that the bell projects as opposed to the "fill-the-room" projection of some other models. The feedback is very unique compared to other horns: it almost seems like it compresses three dimensions into one (does that make any sense?) That's the sound palette.

As far as playability goes, well, it's EXTREMELY uneven in pitch and timbre. Response, especially as soft dynamics, as a joke. Each valve combo seems tuned to a different standard A, none of which are 440. Totally closes down up high and getting loud. Sounds how it wants to sound-very hard to shade or color pitches and sound. Doesn't blend well in a section of modern (or even vintage version of modern) horns. IMO, a one-dimensional horn that doesn't execute its one dimension. There's a reason I replaced it and have relegated the K- to gigs where Im outside or there's drinks involved. My Chicago blows it out of the water in terms of playability, pitch, and how I can color it.

As far as the marking, I, too, can vouch (on pretty good authority) about the X marking on the receiver - seen one, played it, and they do exist.
FWIW
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jadickson
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrJackson wrote:
I have a '59 K large bore (25 on the receiver)
...


Good info. We should note that the large and ML bore K-mods are two very different horns. If you do a search on this forum, you will see old posts of people saying so. I think they say the L bore has more problems than the ML, too.
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jadickson
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sunburstbasser wrote:
...

So, any of you guys do jazzy stuff on your K-Mods? How do you like it?


Yes, I play jazz combo on my K-mod. With the right mouthpiece you can definitely get the kind of sound on that video. I love the sound of mine with a Bach 6B for that combo sound, but I use a Curry 3C for all-around general purpose. A Curry TC model mouthpiece will give a deep, mellow, dark sound if you want to go that far.

Bite the bullet and grab a good one on Ebay or something. You can always re-sell it.
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