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Dave Wilken's presentation to NCMEA today



 
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BeboppinFool
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:52 pm    Post subject: Dave Wilken's presentation to NCMEA today Reply with quote

This is essentially what Dave presented today at the NCMEA convention in Winston-Salem.

At the very end he did give credit to Doc Reinhardt, and to Doug Elliott for the "revised terminology" that he (Dave) uses in this video (broken into 6 "chapters" on youtube):

Part 1:

Link


Part 2:

Link


Part 3:

Link


Part 4:

Link


Part 5:

Link


Part 6:

Link


From the point of view of the "average" music educator, I thought it was an excellent presentation, certainly containing much that most educators would not have ever known.

From the point of view of a dyed-in-the-wool Reinhardt student, I found myself becoming very irritated that the terminology was "watered down," but since I was there at today's presentation, I believe that I understand why Dave did it this way.

What's your reaction?
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AverageJoe
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't hit all the vids yet (halfway there), but I think that the watered down terminology is absolutely the way to go for something like NCMEA. It makes all the high-powered info more accessible to the average music educator. Being a newbie to everything, I actually kind of enjoyed it!

BTW -- nice double-G in video #2, Rich

Paul
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Mr.Hollywood
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Rogers meets Donald Reinhardt.........


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cperret
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:33 am    Post subject: The short answer: Great! The long answer: Reply with quote

You don't have to spend long on trumpetherald to see how dogmatic the trumpet community can be. This is, I believe, to the detriment of every 'school' of trumpet pedagogy. It makes it very difficult for the average amateur to find answers when so many 'camps' seem to be mutually exclusive.

I agree, Rich, that it's sometimes irritating to have to 'translate' these ideas back into the Reinhardt terminology with which I'm familiar, but, as you hinted at, the intention is to make the information accessible to as wide an audience as possible.

Thank you Dave; You've obviously put a lot of care and hard work into these videos. I'm sure they will help and inspire a lot of educators and developing players who are looking for answers. I wish I (or my teachers) had had access to this kind of information while I was struggling with the trumpet in high school and university!
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PivotBone
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I watched all the videos when Dave first posted them a few days back and I thought they were very well done. I know there are two sides represented here with the whole terminology thing and there are good arguments on both sides. I would like to add, however, that the simplified terminology works much more easily for me as a teacher of young children and when I think I will only be working with an older student for one or two lessons. Adding another level of complexity by introducing terminology that isn't self-descriptive just takes more time to teach, learn, and understand. With this in mind, I can certainly see how introducing these ideas to a large group of educators in the span of an hour or so will go much more easily if you don't compound the task with teaching them Reinhardt terminology along with his ideas!

Either way, it's great to see Dave spreading Reinhardt's ideas to the teaching community! Thanks, Dave...

Rich Hanks
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BobList
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've mixed feelings on it... The pure pivot guys want it to stay pure, with all the details..honerable and correct.. but also a watered down version to get someone into, or interested in it makes a little sense, too.. If the end result as the player progresses and stays true to Doc's teachings, things can be addressed and corrected as they go along, adding the details, terminology, etc.

Maybe a better analogy is, If I was giving a class on Electronic fuel injection to other professional technicians, my approach would be more detailed, technical, and straight up pure information. Plenty of acronyms and such.
If I was giving that same class at a library on a Sunday morning for DIY's, it would be watered down in a big way, to get their feet wet, and get them to understand the BASICS without information overload. When the one guy in that class who wants to learn more, and is interested in really knowing everything about it and goes into repairs, he's gonna get the intense version.
I never studied with Doc, but I understand the strong feelings that those who DID have.

Just looking at it a different way.

Bob
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AverageJoe
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think its great that even though the purists would prefer the language and terminology that Doc employed, everyone can see the value in this thing.

I never met Doc, but I wonder if he wouldn't have embraced and even assisted with something like this. Let me just say again that as a newbie (coming up on a year since I was typed and oriented), Doc's detail and terminology often wear me down. I think it behooves us to make his stuff accessible to all those flute-playing band directors who are in a position to make a difference...if better brass playing is the goal, then perhaps Doc is smiling down on it?

Truth is truth after all, no matter how you package it!


Paul
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Doug Elliott
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't seen the videos yet because my internet has been down.

I'll just say that Doc was the one who told me he should never have used the word "Pivot."

When I was a student, lots of my friends also went to Doc. Many if not most of them got bogged down by the terminology and didn't EVER really understand a lot of it.

I decided I didn't want that to happen to me, as a teacher. My students understand what I tell them.
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PivotBone
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doug Elliott wrote:
I haven't seen the videos yet because my internet has been down.

I'll just say that Doc was the one who told me he should never have used the word "Pivot."

When I was a student, lots of my friends also went to Doc. Many if not most of them got bogged down by the terminology and didn't EVER really understand a lot of it.

I decided I didn't want that to happen to me, as a teacher. My students understand what I tell them.


Exactly, Doug. The whole point is that the students understand what you are saying and improve. I've explained Reinhardt's ideas to players who are very advanced and play very well yet still didn't understand or retain what I was saying to them. I've also taught the very same ideas to middle school kids using more straight-forward terminology and they got it with no problem. I didn't change WHAT I was teaching, only HOW I was teaching.

Rich
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