• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Taking care of Gold Plated Schilke P5=4, Platinium trumpets?



 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
slee331
Regular Member


Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 81
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:28 pm    Post subject: Taking care of Gold Plated Schilke P5=4, Platinium trumpets? Reply with quote

Hello all.

Just a quick few questions for the group:

1. How best to take care of a gold plated finish on trumpets? Are silver polishing cloths okay to use or are they too harsh on soft gold finish?

2. Does anyone know or ever heard of Platinium plated trumpets and is a Platinum finish more durable? Will anyone do it? Any comments on the coloration of the sound? On a related point, I thought Schilke had tested various plating materials and wrote a report back in the day.

Thanks in advance and best of luck in your playing, we all could use a little help on that bad chops day.

Sam
_________________
"I believe that playing the trumpet is one means of growing mentally and of continuing to grow, of seeking the truth, and of meeting all challenges that we have to meet."
- 1975 CLINIC ADDRESS by Prof. William A. Adam
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
jvand678
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 796
Location: TX

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have gone the polishing cloth route on different mouthpieces. I don't know if it was the frequency of use or the harshness of the cloth, but a lot of plating is gone now. My GP Schilke P5-4 doesn't actually tarnish so I just use a damp micro fiber cloth to lightly wipe off water spots, fingerprints and dust. After buying my wife's ring a few years back I don't even want to think about a platinum trumpet! It was 1300 bucks an ounce back then!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gringoloco
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 1171
Location: Mérida, Yucatan

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gold is inert which means no tarnish or need for polishing cloth and the chemicals involved (which could actually remove some of the gold).
It should be fine with water and a soft cloth to dry it.
_________________
Laskey/Pinc C
Bach/Laskey Conversion C
Bach MV/Laskey-Pinc ML Bb
Bach NY M Bb
Bach/Melk Eb
Schilke P7-4
Schilke A2C cornet
King Silversonic Bb/A cornet
Melk PVAs
Stork Custom mouthpieces
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Capt.Kirk
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 5792

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You do not need to polish gold it does not tarnish gold plating should be 24k which should not tarnish. Never heard of Platinum plated trumpet but that does not mean it cannot be done as their are plenty of places that plate in platinum and palladium and other rare earth metals mostly for emissions gear! My wedding band and custom made class ring are platinum with out gold lining. I am allergic to gold believe it or not. So I went high end on my class ring and had to wait a while for it to be made. It looks a lot like the cheaper stainless steel class rings so most will probably assume it is nickel or silver since no large mass produced trumpet has ever been made in platinum,palladium or anything else like that normally Silver,Nickel and Gold. Platinum is one of the metals that Ic an wear all day and night and have no reaction too. You could also use Nitride Coatings like Titanium Nitride to coat a trumpet it is used to coat Machine parts and sometimes limited edition hand guns. It is super hard surface coating that is almost wear proof when combined with the most meager of lubrication systems! Even dry it will wear very little. To give you idea of how abrasion resistant it is you can get 150 hours of continuous hours of braking before wearing through the coating. We are talking about breaking on a car or truck. It will produce a golden yellow color that is translucent. Camshafts, crankshafts and other high wear items are often done in this surface treatment. It is super thin so it would react in much the same way as plating does.

If you find a place that will platinum plate your trumpet let me know!
_________________
The only easy day was yesterday!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Crazy Finn
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 6921
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver polishing cloths "polish" the silver by removing the top layer of silver which usually contains the tarnish. Tarnish is a oxidation process that involves the silver - if your horn is gold plated, it should not tarnish. There is no need to polish it.

Wiping gold plate down with a soft cloth should be more than enough to keep it looking nice. DO NOT use a silver polishing cloth as it removes plating. The gold plating on a horn is not thick - removing even small layers of it would be foolish. You did pay the extra cash for gold plate - so wearing it down to the silver would be silly.

Besides, the whole point of gold plate is that it is non-reactive and low maintenance. Wipe it down. Be nice to it. That's all.
_________________
LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Adam V
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 1765
Location: Los Angeles, CA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go to your local fabric store and buy a yard of 100% white cotton flannel. Use it gently to wipe off any sweat or fingerprints.

Don't EVER use:
- chemicals (alcohol, ammonina, etc...)
- polishing cloth
- polish of any kind
- anything abrasive

These things will eventually wear the gold down to the silver... If you want to keep your gold looking dark and lustrous, the key is to clean/wipe off the horn as gently and infrequently as possible.
_________________
1970 Bach 37 Strad
Yamaha 635 flugel

Marcinkiewicz E3/3C
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
slee331
Regular Member


Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 81
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:47 pm    Post subject: Thanks for the Gold Plated responses, anything on Platinium? Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for your replies, just going to let the old gold beauty age gracefully, i'll just keep her clean with the monthly maintenance cleanings.

Though I do feel plating and trumpet coating does slightly affect tone coloration, I would think the metal the bell is made of would play a much larger role.

My Bb needs a bit of a refirb, so I'm actually looking to get it Platinium plated, or perhaps a more durable silver metal like Rhodium, that being said, assuming I can find an instrument plater to do this.

Anyone on Platinium plating and effect on the tone color of the trumpet? I can't really seeing it being a factor other than cosmetic given the plating would be so thin anyway.
_________________
"I believe that playing the trumpet is one means of growing mentally and of continuing to grow, of seeking the truth, and of meeting all challenges that we have to meet."
- 1975 CLINIC ADDRESS by Prof. William A. Adam
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Adam V
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 12 Nov 2008
Posts: 1765
Location: Los Angeles, CA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Thanks for the Gold Plated responses, anything on Platin Reply with quote

slee331 wrote:
Thanks everyone for your replies, just going to let the old gold beauty age gracefully, i'll just keep her clean with the monthly maintenance cleanings.

Though I do feel plating and trumpet coating does slightly affect tone coloration, I would think the metal the bell is made of would play a much larger role.

My Bb needs a bit of a refirb, so I'm actually looking to get it Platinium plated, or perhaps a more durable silver metal like Rhodium, that being said, assuming I can find an instrument plater to do this.

Anyone on Platinium plating and effect on the tone color of the trumpet? I can't really seeing it being a factor other than cosmetic given the plating would be so thin anyway.


I've never heard of any trumpet being plated by anything other than silver, gold, or nickel (although nickel isn't common anymore). Why would you want a different metal?
_________________
1970 Bach 37 Strad
Yamaha 635 flugel

Marcinkiewicz E3/3C
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
slee331
Regular Member


Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 81
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:09 pm    Post subject: Why different metal? Reply with quote

Really simple actually, 1) I want something that looks nice, low maintanence and scratch resistent. 2) I don't think it affects tone color too much given amount of it used.

I've heard Rhodium, though not as bright as Silver, is very durable and very scratch resistent and still has a nice lustre.

So my logic is simple, I just want to protect my baby with the best looking and most durable outfit possible.
_________________
"I believe that playing the trumpet is one means of growing mentally and of continuing to grow, of seeking the truth, and of meeting all challenges that we have to meet."
- 1975 CLINIC ADDRESS by Prof. William A. Adam
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
shofarguy
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 6169
Location: AZ

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There have been other threads like this over the few years that I've been here. Some have pointed out that the gold plating is porous, whereas the silver below isn't. This means that the silver can tarnish beneath the gold.

If this happens, silver polish will remove the tarnish and brighten the whole look of the horn, or mouthpiece. The gold can be rubbed off, eventually, so one has to use restraint. Perhaps, chemical silver polishes are better in this case?

Brian
_________________
Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
etc-etc
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 5387

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Titanium plating, perhaps?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
slee331
Regular Member


Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 81
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:02 pm    Post subject: Actually for durability Reply with quote

Tungsten Carbide Plating? That would look really cool on a trumpet and being scratch proof would be icing on the cake.
_________________
"I believe that playing the trumpet is one means of growing mentally and of continuing to grow, of seeking the truth, and of meeting all challenges that we have to meet."
- 1975 CLINIC ADDRESS by Prof. William A. Adam
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
etc-etc
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 5387

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If only it was also dent-proof ...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Crazy Finn
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 6921
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota

PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Thanks for the Gold Plated responses, anything on Platin Reply with quote

slee331 wrote:
My Bb needs a bit of a refirb, so I'm actually looking to get it Platinium plated, or perhaps a more durable silver metal like Rhodium, that being said, assuming I can find an instrument plater to do this.

Well... good luck with that. You'll probably end up spend several times the original cost of the horn to plate with either of those materials.

There's a reason they're considered precious or rare metals. Compared to those two, Gold is rather common. The prices reflect that. Check the market prices.

There's a reason gold and silver are used for instrument plating. They're relatively cheap and work fairly well.
_________________
LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
shofarguy
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 6169
Location: AZ

PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:48 am    Post subject: Re: Thanks for the Gold Plated responses, anything on Platin Reply with quote

Crazy Finn wrote:
slee331 wrote:
My Bb needs a bit of a refirb, so I'm actually looking to get it Platinium plated, or perhaps a more durable silver metal like Rhodium, that being said, assuming I can find an instrument plater to do this.

Well... good luck with that. You'll probably end up spend several times the original cost of the horn to plate with either of those materials.

There's a reason they're considered precious or rare metals. Compared to those two, Gold is rather common. The prices reflect that. Check the market prices.

There's a reason gold and silver are used for instrument plating. They're relatively cheap and work fairly well.


Besides, gold makes the horn, especially a vintage trumpet, look like it might have been played for King Tut or someone like that. Y'know, "It was right there when we finally opened the tomb!"

Come to think of it, these bags and wrinkles make me look like I might have played for King Tut, back in the day.

Oh, now look! I made myself all teary. I want my Mummy...

Brian
_________________
Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group