Joined: 13 Apr 2004 Posts: 992 Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 12:33 am Post subject:
Not that it matters with a player of Tony's level..but Olds Ambassadors are great sounding horns. Especially if they are raw brass! _________________ "I'm 73 and I'm still learning." - Maurice Murphy
Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 2481 Location: The Big Valley
Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 8:27 am Post subject:
Tony's not going to sell too many Scodwells after this!
I've been into Olds horns for a while now, and my Ambassador is coming back from the shop next week. Raw brass, valve job. It played great before, but just a little squirelly with the leaky valve. The sound, though, is unmistakably Olds. Bright as a penny, solid and projecting.
They sometimes lack the warmth I look for in some situations, but that's a trumpetty trumpet.
Joined: 16 Feb 2002 Posts: 108 Location: Greenwood, SC
Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:42 am Post subject:
NO!!! It must be the mouthpiece, then...haven't you paid attention? The equipment makes the sounds, not the person!! The person is just there to blow and push the buttons!
Joined: 03 Sep 2003 Posts: 10124 Location: Escondido California
Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:12 am Post subject:
I'm sure even Tony knows that ain't no "student" horn . . . _________________ Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
- TH member and advertiser (name withheld)
Joined: 21 Mar 2008 Posts: 1346 Location: L.A. area
Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:12 am Post subject:
crzytptman wrote:
I'm sure even Tony knows that ain't no "student" horn . . .
I've been told that Zig's response is, "This is no student horn." I agree. I owned a '67 Olds Amb. trumpet, and just bought an Olds Amb. cornet last night that's in terrific shape and plays and sounds fantastic. It was likely manufactured in '75, but I found absolutely no deficits to it at all. Plays like a champ! _________________ '64 Conn Connstellation 38B
Jupiter 846S flugelhorn
CarolBrass Mini Pocket Trumpet
Schilke 17& 17D4d4 trumpet mpcs
Schilke 17F flugelhorn mpc
Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:56 pm Post subject: That was good, but geez...
..if only he was playing an Old Super Recording, instead of a cheap Ambassador....Can you imagine how much better that would sound?? _________________ A Better way to Shop for Trumpets on eBay
http://trumpetsearch.com
Point made however, speaking for myself...I am not (and will never be) as good as Tony or Doc.
Having stated the above, due to my weak chops, limited talent and minimal practice time...I have to rely on having the most optimized equipment for ME and the music I play in order to produce a good sound.
This allows me to think and work less as the horn does some of the work for me.
For example...
A darker playing horn and MP will sound darker than a standard / brighter horn / MP set-up for a person who plays with too much tension, has a brighter sound etc.
A more efficient horn and MP will help an amateur slot their notes closer to the center of the pitch and help to increase their endurance...less in...more out.
The list goes on and on however you get the point.
I think we all agree that a great player can make a student horn sound better than the average amateur can make it sound, however, I think we also need to understand that the horn can help an amateur player sound better than we are.
It is my opinion that good equipment helps an intermediate player more than a beginner and professional simply due to the vast differences between these (2) levels of playing such as...
Beginners are just trying to make a lot of different sounds (notes) a Trumpet can make.
Intermediate players have mastered making these sounds and have progressed to effectively improving these sounds (notes) sometimes to the level of a professional sound. This is where we need our equipment to help us.
Professionals can easily and effectively compensate for a multitude of equipment issues.
I invested in my equipment with this belief and it has shown to be a significant factor regarding my much improved intonation and tone quality without increasing my practice time. _________________ God Bless,
Dan O'Donnell
"Praise Him with the sound of the Trumpet:..."
Psalms 150:3
All these CAN (could) play most anything, but they CHOSE to develop something for themselves and began businesses out of it. There are more on this list. I guess they all had to have that last 1%???
We have them to thank for not simply "settling for" the horns that were available, but instead giving us instruments worth cherishing.
Brian _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.
Well in the case of the Olds Ambassador it really gets the advatage of all that came before it from Olds. It wears the exact same bell profile as all the other Olds models. So you can not like a Super Recording then talk garbage about the Ambassador. The valves are the same design other then one piece case, the bell is the same profile as all the rest of the Olds line, the tuning slide geometry is darn near identical to the Mendez minus the triggers. The main difference in the olds line up was the leadpipes and begining bore of the main tuning slides, triggers and bell thickness and materials. This is why you can change the leadpipe and buff the bell thinner and mimick an Olds Super Recording. Anytime someone wants to see what material thickness, choices and leadpipe taper can do all one needs to do is look at the Olds model lineups. They where able to use one bell profile and by mixing up the materials and different thickness's and different leadpipes produce radically different sounding horns!
The olds Ambassador and it Reynolds Medalist near clone are the best two student trumpets in the history of trumpets and truly they deserve pro status really. They can easily out play anything currently marketed as student or intermediate horns in the hands of a good player. Just make sure that if you buy a Medalist that it has the wing strut braces those are the good ones that Olds made. The ones with standard Z braces are the ones to avoid as these where usually the Roth Reynolds models and they are all over the place with regard to quality they are also a larger bore horn.
I like to strip the lacquer off the bells and swap in a different leadpipe to really make them come alive! The medalist are a tad darker and more efficient due to the difference in bracing and all the nickel trim. I can say nothing but good things about the Pilczuk Accusonic leadpipe. If you have an olds Ambassador or Reynolds Medalist that you are tired off but it is in great shape other wise with regaurd to compression try a Pilczuk Accusonic leadpipe from Rich Ita! I bet it will once again win your attention as it transforms them into an entirely different beast. I use the word beast as a positive word not a negative.
As to player versus gear I think it goes with out saying that in the end it will always come down to the nut behind the horn! It also is obvious that some minimum level of gear is a requirement to maximize the players ability to express himself.Sure Miles Davis could take a $100 Ebay horn and out play me even if I had a Monette but that does not in anyone eliminate the need for good gear. I think inthe above clip the "Student Trumpet" being used really can not be held to the same limitations as say a Bach TR300 or YTR-1335 or a $100 Ebay trumpet etc......Plenty of people have recorded albums using an Olds Ambassador for parts of it. I read about one guy doing just that on a Jazz forum.
In fact I am sure that if Mr. Kanstul wanted to he could copy 98% of the Olds design and just tweak it a bit in terms of intonation and sell it as a pro model. If it had a "Pro" status associated with it then it would sell like hot cakes and as long as no one knew it was a copy of the Olds line it would be touted as the best thing since sliced bread! _________________ The only easy day was yesterday!
The first (happy) point is that comparing your own sound on a student and on a pro horn, you can clearly hear the improvement.
The second (sobering) point is whether anyone else can hear that difference.
The third (reflective) point is that after playing a while on the pro horn, you come back to the student horn and make it sound exactly as good as you sounded on the pro.
The fourth (inquisitive) point is: was Tony Scodwell using an Al Cass mouthpiece?
Joined: 03 Sep 2003 Posts: 10124 Location: Escondido California
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:31 pm Post subject:
This was Uan Rasey's favorite
trumpet for 26 years and was used for every important
performance, recording and movie sound track during that time. I
had a conversation with Uan about this trumpet and here is what he
told me:
"This Olds Recording model trumpet was made for me in 1949
shortly after I was hired by MGM. Ruth Dallas, who was Reg Olds
secretary and managed the factory for him, came by the studio to
ask us if we would play Olds trumpets. I said that I really liked the
Ambassador and could do good work with it. They wanted me to
play the new Recording model but I didn't like the valves forward or
the offset second valve, so they made me one using the
Ambassador valve section, the bell length the same as the Super and
the mouthpipe from the old Super Recording.
"This is the trumpet that I used on all those MGM dates, Billy Mays
band and many other jobs until 1974 when I switched to a King
Silver Flair trumpet, which I used for Chinatown. I used the Olds
for the first trumpet parts on American in Paris, West Side Story,
On the Town, Singing in the Rain, My Fair Lady, Ben Hur,
Spartacus and all the MGM pictures during that time." _________________ Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
- TH member and advertiser (name withheld)
If there wasn't a difference everyone would be saving lots of money buying Olds Ambassadors.
I love how much the Ambassador is romanticized here online.
Great players will make any horn work but the horn they choose for everyday work makes their lives a lot easier.
Best,
t
I agree. Ambassadors are the best student horns around, but there's a reason no one plays them professionally. _________________ Jonathan Vieker
The Lip Rip Blues
My ongoing recovery from a torn lip muscle, updated regularly!
Joined: 10 Mar 2004 Posts: 818 Location: Milford, Massachusetts
Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:51 pm Post subject:
I'm pretty sure Blue Mitchell used an Ambassador quite a bit. Back in those days, the Ambassador was a cool name. Still is, but we know now it was the student model. Tell that to a pro while he was using it! lol
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