1971 Bach 72* leadpipe?

[forrest]

I just bought an early 1970's 72* Strad (s/n 665XX). The leadpipe isn't marked, and probably needs to be replaced.

Anyone know what the standard leadpipe was in 1971 on a lightweight 72?

43? 25-0? It plays really well so I'd like to replace it with a comparable one.

Anyone have an old catalog from 1971 that shows the info?

[Adam V]

I'm guessing it would either be a standard 25 or maybe a 25-0. If it's not marked then it's definitely not a 43.
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1970 Bach 37 Strad
Yamaha 635 flugel

Marcinkiewicz E3/3C

[dbacon]

DB

[Ed Kennedy]

Charlie can mic the venturi of your old pipe to determine whether its a 25 or 25-0 and match it on the new pipe.

[tom turner]

Hi,

This is a wonderful opportunity to try out several "pipes" and really dial the horn in to fit YOU best!

You may be able to order several versions of the pipes from a custom maker and try each. If you can do this, make sure NOT to look at the number on the pipe when you tape it parallel to the original pipe to test.

After the test, look and see which pipe played best for you, then write down the number.

Mix up the pipes and repeat this test a few more times over a couple of days period. In each instance, the same leadpipe will be discovered to be better than the others!

It is then that you know you've improved the blow of the horn for YOU!

I did this very thing about 11 years ago with an incredible M37 I had that needed a new leadpipe. After testing many pipes side by side, I settled on an original, new Pilczuk leadpipe but there are many good companies out there today. BTW, I also tested stock Bach pipes at the same time.

Hope this helps,

Tom

[Capt.Kirk]

I have a fondness in my heart for Bach 72 bells. Normally if it is not marked it is going to be the 25 pipe on the 72 bell models. A better choice would be a 25-0 or a 43 or a 7. If you like a horn that is easy to blow with little resistance and great upper register then the 43 and 7 pipe would be ideal. The 43 is going to be brighter and the 7 darker. If you like some resistance up front but not as much as the 25 pipe has then the 25-0 would be the way to go. The 25-0 is going to sound almost identical from top to bottom as the 25 pipe it is just going to have slightly better blow.

A lot of people think the 43 pipe and 7 pipes are the best two pipes that Bach ever developed in terms of ease of playing and great intonation from top to bottom. The reason more people do not use them is because endurance can be an issue for some especially if they are used to playing a 180S37 because they normally ship with a 25 pipe on them.

If it was my horn I would try both the 43 and the 7 and see which one sounded best with me playing it. No two horns are going to respond indenticlly and no two players are going to get the same effect from a given pipe.

I favor a darker sound especially from a large throat bell like the 72. So I would go with the 7 more then likely and use MP's to make up any difference I needed in sound. So I would more then likely use a deep 3C for most of my playing then toss on a shallow 3C type MP for lead work or too brighten things up etc.....The 72 bell has more color choices and more depth to the sound so it responds very well to different MP compared to the 37 bell. You can radicly change the sound of a 72 bell with MP choices and how you are playing.

If you decided not to stay stock I would take a look at M/K drawing Red 7 and Pilczuk Accusonic by Rich Ita. The accusonics are a radiclly different design and you either love them or hate them but they do everything they claim to do!
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The only easy day was yesterday!

[Leon]

If it is a light weight body and bell, you have a 25 O Pipe. That is what is standard, and the pipe is unmarked.
If it you like the way it plays, why change the pipe?
Leon

[forrest]

[Crazy Finn]

[Capt.Kirk]

Take it off and measure it that will tell you what it is? It should have a small end id of around .340 assuming Bach did not flair it when they where installing it and the big end should stop at .453 if it is a 25 pipe. If it is different from that at least we will have the measurements so we can tell you what it is.

I did not think that Bach changed the small in id at all on their pipes just the rate of taper and the size at the big end id? I though all Bach pipes started out at .340 id at the small end? If I am wrong about this someone that has the measurements that Mr. Becker should really help us all out and post the beginning and ending sizes of the Bach pipes so we can all identify any old pipes we run into! Leadipes that are new old stock are seldom marked until they have the receiver put on it is on the flat edge of the receiver that it get's marked. If I am right though it means that it is the big end that would be off. On top of that I do not think one can just open the one end or the other as the entire rate of taper would be different. If you only open one end or the other that is not going to change the rate of taper the entire length of the leadpipe. Their is quite a bit of waste in leadpipe manufacturing as drawing is not like stamping or hand forming around a mandrel. You might get a pipe that is two feet long and then need to trim so many inch's off each end to arrive at the final part. Depending on where you start and stop the cut can make a drastic difference on the end product. Google drawing table to get an idea of how parts are drawn. On top of that some people and manufactures flair the end of the pipe before installation and some do not again huge difference.

The rate of taper and the number of individual tapers that make up the part can have a profound impact on intonation each individual taper is like a correction with in the pipe. Few pipes are one continuous taper rather they are like a number of individual tapers stacked one on top of another and kind of blended. You have long slow tapers and short fast taper and both seem to do their prospective job depending ont he rest of the trumpets design. This is before yo even get into one piece and two piece pipes and reversed pipes etc.......You lose about 1/2 an inch of taper in a reversed pipe for the length of straight pipe that is inserted and the length gained is straight with no taper which has an entirely different effect.

I would talk to Melk,M/K or Jim Becker about your plan as I do not think that you can just open up a 25 to make it a 25-0? I might be wrong but I think I am right on this one. I am going to ask if some people that know can post the Bach leadpipe big and small id's to see if theya re different?
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The only easy day was yesterday!

[mcgovnor]

If you really love the horn, I wouldn't change it at all.
I know a very high profile player who recently bought a NY Bach, loved it, and just sliver soldered the spots that were eaten through and left the rest.

The pipe, stock on your horn at that serial number would be a standard 25.

You can find Bach lead pipes for sale as "repair items" on musicians friend, i believe, and as another poster wisely suggested, you can try all the different Bach tapers and return what you don't like. Osmun may be another good source. Most good repairmen have a few Bach pipes in the shop.
Josh Landress at Sam Ash NY has them in stock.

My experience with Bach trumpets and after market pipes is simply stick with the Bach choices. They are the best sounding, most compatable and most in tune.
I have a few 44 pipes and a 43 pipe if you would like to buy one.

On your vintage horn, I prefer the 25 0.

[forrest]

The horn plays really well. There are spots on the inside and outside of the leadpipe. Since I'm having some work done (stripping the poor relacquer job off, dent/ding repair, and relacquer job), I'd like to have a replacement pipe handy if needed.

If Tom Green says there's no red rot, I'll keep the pipe or sell it.

I know the pipe is different for a lightweight horn than a standard weigh, which is no big deal. While I'm getting it relacquered, I'll also get another slide (semi-round) lacquered to match.

[mcgovnor]

trying to tell you something.
If the horn plays, just keep the pipe on it.
Pour valve oil down the pipe every week, swab it and it will last longer then you.
Don't take it lightly if the horn plays.
Same with the tuning slide.
Just leave it alone.
When u buy a trumpet, u buy it because of the bell, leadpipe and tuning slide, in that order.

[forrest]

[mcgovnor]

i'm trying to help everyone.
willy nilly change this or that is ng.
if u like a horn, leave it.
leave it alone. let it work for u.