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Flip Oakes Extreme Flugel Mouthpiece


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loweredsixth
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 3:51 pm    Post subject: Flip Oakes Extreme Flugel Mouthpiece Reply with quote

I just received my Flip Oakes X5 Flugel mouthpiece the other day. It is ridiculously deep. I guarantee you've never seen a flugel mouthpiece this deep. And the bore is HUGE...like a trombone mouthpiece!

The sound from this thing is out of this world. I can't use it as my main flugel mouthpiece, but it will be in my arsenal for when I want to really stand out while soloing.

My sound on it is a bit unfocused, but that's to be expected. I just need to spend some time on it and learn how to play it. Having said that, I would have thought by looking at this mouthpiece that it would be very difficult to play. It's not. Flexibility, response, and intonation are surprisingly good.

You guys have to see this mouthpiece. It is unbelievable. Flip, thanks for designing such an extreme mouthpiece.

BTW, playing Curry mouthpieces has some distinct advantages. For example, I have five different flugel cup depths to choose from all having the exact same rim. From shallowest to deepest: FL-M, FL, FL-D, Flip Oakes, Flip Oakes Extreme. That's a ton of choices for flugelhorn.
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crzytptman
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, yeah! The Extreme is just amazing! I have a gig in a restaurant in Leucadia a couple times a month where I play flugel exclusively. The sound I get with the Extreme is a BIG hit. You're right, it is Extreme-ly easy to play on, once you get used to the blow.
I had it with me last week at the store where I teach. My good friend, who is an amazing trombone player, also teaches there. He has been getting into flugel, and I gave him a Flip Oakes WT 1 a while back which he loves. When I showed him the Extreme, he had the same reaction that everybody has. I let him play it, and the first thing he did was seriously overblow it. I told him to just relax and let it flow, and he produced a beautiful tone.
loweredsixth, I'm the opposite of you - the Extreme is my main piece, and I have a FO3 in my case for section work. And, all due respect to Mr. Curry - there is only one option for flugel . . .
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 8:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Flip Oakes Extreme Flugel Mouthpiece Reply with quote

loweredsixth wrote:
I just received my Flip Oakes X5 Flugel mouthpiece the other day. It is ridiculously deep. I guarantee you've never seen a flugel mouthpiece this deep. And the bore is HUGE...like a trombone mouthpiece!

The sound from this thing is out of this world. I can't use it as my main flugel mouthpiece, but it will be in my arsenal for when I want to really stand out while soloing.

My sound on it is a bit unfocused, but that's to be expected. I just need to spend some time on it and learn how to play it. Having said that, I would have thought by looking at this mouthpiece that it would be very difficult to play. It's not. Flexibility, response, and intonation are surprisingly good.

You guys have to see this mouthpiece. It is unbelievable. Flip, thanks for designing such an extreme mouthpiece.

BTW, playing Curry mouthpieces has some distinct advantages. For example, I have five different flugel cup depths to choose from all having the exact same rim. From shallowest to deepest: FL-M, FL, FL-D, Flip Oakes, Flip Oakes Extreme. That's a ton of choices for flugelhorn.


I tell you, if you play that X-5 for a week exclusively, you'll cry if you have to go back to something else!

Brian
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chuck in ny
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mine is a 10.5. i'm backed off enough in approach not to have had any over blowing problems. when you look inside the mouthpiece, it's like 'no way', but it really is an easy piece to play.
it totally fits my concept of flugel sound. my mission is a lot less stringent, playing around the house for my amusement and development..
chuck
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Tony Scodwell
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 7:26 am    Post subject: Flip flugel piece Reply with quote

It sounds really big. I think I understand the concept he's going for in so far as sound, but I'd like to know if there's a "comfort" level in playing slightly above the staff or say like, very soft unisons with flutes. The only experience I have with deeper than usual flugel pieces is the Warburton model with a french horn type cup. It wasn't suitable [for me] in my flugel playing situations and actually I adapted the shank to fit my old Conn Mellophonium [which is quite good on that horn]. I'm always interested in innovative thinking and Flip sure seems to be doing that with both his mouthpieces and horns. I'd appreciate any feedback.
Tony Scodwell
Scodwell USA Trumpets and Flugelhorns available only from Washington Music Center, call Lee Walkowich at 301.946.8808
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 8:10 am    Post subject: Re: Flip flugel piece Reply with quote

Tony Scodwell wrote:
It sounds really big. I think I understand the concept he's going for in so far as sound, but I'd like to know if there's a "comfort" level in playing slightly above the staff or say like, very soft unisons with flutes. The only experience I have with deeper than usual flugel pieces is the Warburton model with a french horn type cup. It wasn't suitable [for me] in my flugel playing situations and actually I adapted the shank to fit my old Conn Mellophonium [which is quite good on that horn]. I'm always interested in innovative thinking and Flip sure seems to be doing that with both his mouthpieces and horns. I'd appreciate any feedback.
Tony Scodwell
Scodwell USA Trumpets and Flugelhorns available only from Washington Music Center, call Lee Walkowich at 301.946.8808


Tony,

The Extreme design requires the player to have good focus to the air stream. If that is in place (I assume you've got that well covered), then the mouthpiece is very easy to play in all registers.

I have played this style mouthpiece in both my Chicago 1025 and WT, and find that the sound it produces is able to blend with many other voices. In my horns, it is not too diffused (although some days I have a little trouble fine tuning the pitch, if the ensemble isn't right together), but gave a velvety smoothness; not too fluffy, not harsh. There is a French horn character present.

Response is very intuitive for me, more so than with more conventional mouthpieces which I find demand that I hold back disproportionately more than on trumpet. Articulation is very good, easily allowing for delicate nuance.

Dynamic range is substantially increased with this mouthpiece, which seems to unlock all of the horn's abilities.

I am using the #5 rim, now (the #3 previously) and it is a good compromise between comfort and control. Mark puts his standard rims on Flip's designs and they are based on Mt. Vernon Bach rims.

At this time, Flip is recommending the French taper configuration without reservation, but the Morse tapers are proving to need a horn-by-horn assessment because of pitch-level tuning issues caused by the receiver design, i.e. the player may not be able to tune the horn up to pitch without some modification of the receiver.
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crzytptman
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I don't know what Brian means by "good focus to the air stream", but I would equate the feel to how a trumpet player usually attempts a low brass instrument - by letting the chops spread since the acoustic feedback is not pushing back like on trumpet. These players usually blow much harder than necessary because of the lack of resistance. If a player understands how to keep the chops together and balance the air pressure (layman's term) behind the lips, he/she can play much easier and with good tone.
Tony, I can easily play up to high G. This mouthpiece also improved the intonation of my Getzen 4 valve Eterna. Or, maybe it allows room for me to play in tune. Anyway, try one!
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Dan O'Donnell
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

loweredsixth,

Congratulations your great MP!

When I first play tested one, I told Brian..."It's so big I could fit my elbow in it!"

As I played it on my Kanstul 925 W/Copper Bell I identified (2) things...

1.) The sound was similar to my Kanstul Bach 3C (Deep Cup) Copy "Woody" MP W/#119 Backbore both behind the bell as I heard it and also in front of the bell according to a listener...that's saying something really good!

2.) Although the depth of the cup worried me regarding my weak chops in the upper register...it did not effect my ability to play in the top of my range at all. This surprised me because I have played deep cup Trumpet MPs and they made it harder for ME to play in the top of MY range.

Overall, a great MP!!!
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qcm
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Flip flugel piece Reply with quote

shofarguy wrote:
At this time, Flip is recommending the French taper configuration without reservation, but the Morse tapers are proving to need a horn-by-horn assessment because of pitch-level tuning issues caused by the receiver design, i.e. the player may not be able to tune the horn up to pitch without some modification of the receiver.


Brian,

Do you know if Flip has had a chance to assess the X on a LA Benge flugel yet? I'm hoping to order either an X3 or an X5 sometime soon.

-Dave
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 10:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Flip flugel piece Reply with quote

qcm wrote:
shofarguy wrote:
At this time, Flip is recommending the French taper configuration without reservation, but the Morse tapers are proving to need a horn-by-horn assessment because of pitch-level tuning issues caused by the receiver design, i.e. the player may not be able to tune the horn up to pitch without some modification of the receiver.


Brian,

Do you know if Flip has had a chance to assess the X on a LA Benge flugel yet? I'm hoping to order either an X3 or an X5 sometime soon.

-Dave


Yes, Dave, I think he had a 3X Benge flugel on hand. Flip is for sure watching this thread, so he can jump in and correct me, if need be. The issue with horns like the Benge is that, if a player has trouble getting up to pitch, the receiver may not allow the mouthpipe to adjust in far enough because of the shoulder that hits the outer tube.

I know on a few horns, Flip has turned the receiver down so that it can slide into the outer tube farther. That's why a player-by-player, horn-by-horn assessment needs to happen if the horn isn't set up for French taper.

Other than that, Flip can answer any other questions about sound and intonation on a Benge.

Brian
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Flip Oakes
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Dave,

No I haven't had a Benge come in to actually try. I thought I had a friend with one, but it turned out that he had sold it last year. I would like to see one, and try it before I really say anything more. It could be if it didn't make the pitch, as Brian said I could possibly alter it, I would have to play the horn, and see the leadpipe before I can really say.

Take care,

Flip Oakes
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chuck in ny
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it's too bad there isn't some form of loaner program with this mouthpiece where a player could try it out for the cost of the postage.
any trumpet player should have great trepidation in thinking about getting this mouthpiece. everything we know about mouthpiece design would tell us it's going to play too diffusely, it's going to choke the upper register, it could change intonation.
the easiest construction i can make of the situation is that you wouldn't know you are playing on a piece with extreme specifications. mine plays very similar to my previous wild thing piece, only with a bit nicer sound. there was a very short adjustment period, but not to the sound and only the blow which is common with all gear.
trumpet mouthpieces will always be a hard row to hoe. the flugel is a walk in the park. my sound concept for the flugel is smooth and sweet and the extreme fits me very well.. chuck
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Flugelnut
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been using a WT X7 on with my LA Benge 5 for a week now, and for me it's not revolutionary different from the standard WT7.
The sound is even creamier (for lack of a better description), and since I don't play much over G on top of the stave anyway, I'm not bothered by problems up high.
Intonation is no real problem: the Benge "problem notes" D, EB, and E in top of the stave are no worse than with the 7, and can (and could) be bent into place easily.
Response is fine, and overall I'm pleased I got myself the X.
I must admit though that when I first looked down the cup I was reminded of the old Harry Belafonte song "There's a hole in the bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza.....".
I hope Flip doesn't take offense.
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loweredsixth
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The cup looks, at first glance, quite comical. I laughed out loud when I first saw it...it's massively deep. I don't mean that in any bad way. It's great!
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veery715
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also recently bought an X7 for my Kanstul 1525. Yes it is deep, and YES it has a huge pipe of a throat. Don't fall in!!

It does take a bit of adjustment to not overblow it, but the sound is very much worth it. It will melt your audience.

veery
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crzytptman
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that's my goal at the end of the night - a puddle of humanity swirling at my feet . . .
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tommy t.
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My X0P, short Morse for my Kanstul 1525, arrived last Wednesday. I picked it up from my daughter-in-law (who gets my mail for me -- we don't have mail delivery out in the Thicket) and played for her. She's a french horn player, cornet doubler.

I played a little "Stormy Weather" in concert F on an Oakes F0 and then on the XOP. She immediately said "Oh, much more mellow." That was my reaction also, not darker, more mellow. I played the "Children of Sanchez" theme on an Oakes F3 with a fair amount of power and then on the XOP, trying for the same power. First thing I noticed was even up to A above staff, playing a solid forte, the timbre didn't change -- I really couldn't make it take an edge. She said "The new one is smoother."

That evening I took it to a band rehearsal and handed it to our section principal -- a local school band director. He played it on his Jupiter flugel and said "Good first impression -- I like to work with this for a while."

Last night was a very interesting test. I managed to get to a concert band rehearsal about 20 miles from home with a big combo case which unzipped to reveal only my flugel. I'd taken my WT out and put it in a single horn hard shell case for a local college graduation gig that didn't need any mutes or alternate instruments and that's where the trumpet still was. I had a choice of the F3, the F0 and the X0P. I figured I might as well give the test. I played a two hour rehearsal of concert band first cornet parts with the X0P. I wouldn't recommend that for blending with a section of trumpets or for being heard over the band. But, this is what I noticed.

No trigger needed for below the staff Db and D.

No lipping up needed for fifth partial D and E.

Solid intonation on the G and A at the top of the staff.

Diminuendos on sustained notes could taken clear to n without any waiver or breathiness.

No adverse effect on my endurance. Last note of the evening was an optional D above high C which my principal does not like to try late in the evening. I usually cover it. I played it in tune but I could not manage forte volume -- it was probably mf.

I see no reason why the X0P will not replace my F0 completely. When I am called on to play a flugel part with a concert band, I'll use the F3 because it will light up and cut through the background a bit better. (It should be noted that the Kanstul 1525 was picked for the purposes of being mellow and smooth in a solo or small combo setting. It is the instrument that I wanted for my most common uses for flugel. It is not what I would pick for flugel in a British Brass Band.)

Flip will not be seeing this one in the return mail.

Tommy T.
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shofarguy
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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today I led our traditional worship service. Our music minister always includes some horn work for me. Today he had me playing through a couple of hymns before the congregation joined in singing. He wanted the flugelhorn sound, so I used my WT Flugel with my X-5 mouthpiece.

I'm so used to it now, I don't think twice about it usually. Afterward, one of the musicians (flute, oboe and church organ! ) who plays in my orchestra commented that he'd have to get the guys in the HS jazz band to play "that mouthpiece", too. He really likes the sound.

At another gig, a couple of weeks ago, a tuba player commented on the smooth sound of my trumpet and flugelhorn. He plays with the Pasadena chapter of the Salvation Army Band. He actually told me, a few days later, that one of his teachers had warned him against buying Kanstul horns. But because of the sounds I was getting out of my Kanstul-built Wild Things, he was curious about their new tubas (different forum ), which are world class horns in their own right.

It's one thing to convince fellow trumpet/flugelhorn players of something like Flip's new Extreme Series mouthpieces. It's quite another to capture the attention and admiration of other non-trumpet musicians.

Thanks for your terrific products, Flip!
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There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.
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swing95
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
I ordered, yesterday, 3 No.10.5 mouthpiece directly from Flip Oakes. One of each taper.
I am looking forward to play them as soon as I get them.
Cheers
Francisco
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tommy t.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swing95 wrote:
Hi,
I ordered, yesterday, 3 No.10.5 mouthpiece directly from Flip Oakes. One of each taper.
I am looking forward to play them as soon as I get them.
Cheers
Francisco


Why did you order three different tapers? Any given horn only works with the single taper for which it was designed.

(I'm just curious. Several posibilities come to mind: you have three horns of different make and model; you have students who have different horns; you are a retailer who wants a selection to offer customers.)

Tommy T.
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