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Bass Trumpet Recommendations



 
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J.D. Heckathorn
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:02 am    Post subject: Bass Trumpet Recommendations Reply with quote

Hi all,

Currently working on a project where I would like to record bass trumpet as L/R Panned Rhythm parts with normal Bb Trumpet as the "Lead" almost as if you replaced normal rock guitars with trumpets. The bass trumpet I will be experimenting with various bass distortion plugins. No idea where this will go, but as is the case with experiments! Ha.

A search yielded little recent information about many of the lower cost bass trumpets. Some about the Schiller/Jinbao stuff.

Anyway, to do this I will need a bass trumpet and would preferably not spend the $3k+ for the big companies' horns. Does anyone have any experience with any of the menagerie of Chinese-made bass trumpets? I'm currently looking at the Jim Laabs/Mack Brass distributed ones since they have a QC element where they are at least tested and looked over before being sold. Since I will not be playing Wagner at Severence Hall I just need something that will be reliable enough to experiment with and not break the bank.

Thanks in advance!

Best,

J
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mm55
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been looking at the offerings from Wessex Tubas on their website, but I don't find many reviews of them elsewhere. They have rotary and piston models. The company is based in England, their instruments are made in China (by Jinbao, I think), and I believe they have a US warehouse/showroom operation in Chicago. The prices are extremely low. That may be either good or bad.
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bean_counter
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're experimenting at this point, and using distortion plug-ins anyway, why not try first with a valve trombone? Vintage examples are out there pretty cheap.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're going to be using effects you could consider using your regular Bb with a device that can lower the pitch an octave or two. I've known a few a capella singers who multi-track and lower their voice an octave or two for bass parts and it can be very effective if done right.

FWIW I know someone with a Wessex picc and it seems to be of reasonable quality.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As you can see from my signature, I have been playing a Prisma bass trumpet for some time. Really enjoy it and for the price it is a pretty good instrument. The vaöves are a little noisier than I like but intonation and overall sound are pretty good. Keeper until I can afford one of those way more expensive cool custom horns

Pretty sire they do international shipping, not sure about the customs.
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JonathanM
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've picked up a couple of Getzen's Bass Trumpets that were fun to play. I really struggle with the larger mouthpiece but you can find the review I did of one of them at Youtube by searching 'Milam Getzen Bass Trumpet Review'.

Very well put together; the usual excellent valves and the slides were great too. I don't think they're producing that model at present so the price was right for used ones. Also, I think the primary difference between the bass trumpet and a valve trombone is the wrap. I also had a Getzen valve trombone that I found easier to hold and probably had a slightly smaller bore size - much easier to play (for me).
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J.D. Heckathorn
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked at the Wessex line and $650 for the lacquer version is a bit high considering it's still Chinese made.

I'm planning to play a lot of unison octave parts but also using bass trumpet as kind of a bass guitar would be, as a rhythmic pulse

I thought of pitch shifting but I honestly have to be that guy and say I'd prefer to play music than engineer it. Also I create better with instruments than with a mouse and keyboard, nothing wrong with that of course just not as inspirational .

Be nice if I could read German but no English UI?

Mr. Milam- I'd be willing to pay a bit extra for a getzen bass trumpet, not sure how much they run on the used market i have yet to see one come up. It's funny I think I already watched your video on the getzen bass trumpet earlier on in my search, haha. Nice playing! Props to you for putting yourself and your playing out there.
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Ed Kennedy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JonathanM wrote:
I've picked up a couple of Getzen's Bass Trumpets that were fun to play. I really struggle with the larger mouthpiece but you can find the review I did of one of them at Youtube by searching 'Milam Getzen Bass Trumpet Review'.

Very well put together; the usual excellent valves and the slides were great too. I don't think they're producing that model at present so the price was right for used ones. Also, I think the primary difference between the bass trumpet and a valve trombone is the wrap. I also had a Getzen valve trombone that I found easier to hold and probably had a slightly smaller bore size - much easier to play (for me).


Our own "Beboppin' Fool" Rich Willey played a Getzen for a while when he was on hiatus from trumpet. I played a number of gigs with him and he sounded great. Regarding differences between bass trumpet and V tbone, the primary difference is the leadpipe. Trombone has a short leadpipe going into the slide, bass trumpet has a longer tapered leadpipe (2X a Bb trumpet). Plus the bell bend and bracing is different.I couldn't tell you how that pans out for the player but it has to have an effect.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J.D. Heckathorn wrote:
I thought of pitch shifting but I honestly have to be that guy and say I'd prefer to play music than engineer it. Also I create better with instruments than with a mouse and keyboard, nothing wrong with that of course just not as inspirational .

I thought to suggest pitch shifting primarily because you mentioned the possibility of using effects like distortion plug-ins. I'm fairly certain you can pitch shift real-time without needing to resort to mouse and keyboard.
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JonathanM
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed Kennedy wrote:
JonathanM wrote:
I've picked up a couple of Getzen's Bass Trumpets that were fun to play. I really struggle with the larger mouthpiece but you can find the review I did of one of them at Youtube by searching 'Milam Getzen Bass Trumpet Review'.

Very well put together; the usual excellent valves and the slides were great too. I don't think they're producing that model at present so the price was right for used ones. Also, I think the primary difference between the bass trumpet and a valve trombone is the wrap. I also had a Getzen valve trombone that I found easier to hold and probably had a slightly smaller bore size - much easier to play (for me).


Our own "Beboppin' Fool" Rich Willey played a Getzen for a while when he was on hiatus from trumpet. I played a number of gigs with him and he sounded great. Regarding differences between bass trumpet and V tbone, the primary difference is the leadpipe. Trombone has a short leadpipe going into the slide, bass trumpet has a longer tapered leadpipe (2X a Bb trumpet). Plus the bell bend and bracing is different.I couldn't tell you how that pans out for the player but it has to have an effect.


Ed - great stuff. Your details on the diff between bass trumpet and valve trombone are right on. Notwithstanding all the twists and turns of the bass trumpet, the two that I had seemed to play much more open than the valve trombones (4?) that I've had. Way too open for me.
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cjl
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mack Brass and Wessex both have a good deal of respect in the tuba world.

I would not be afraid to give the Mack Brass one a try at $495. I have heard nothing but good things about Mack Brass support and customer service. The Wessex piston model at $725 is quite likely the same horn but with a gold brass bell and leader pipe. They also offer a rotary bass trumpet at around $600. And Wessex, too, has great customer support and service.

I'd like to try one myself sometime, just for kicks.

-- Joe
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nieuwguyski
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking at the the Jim Laabs website, all the bass trumpets are listed as having a .459" bore, rotary or piston valve. Obviously, that's a typical ML Bb trumpet bore and much more in the European tradition of bass trumpets -- which is to say, more oriented toward the high register and not so much a fat lower register.

In comparison, the Getzen bass trumpet had a bore of .486". The Bach Strad and Kanstul bass trumpets have a .485" bore and the Conn bass trumpet had a .484" bore.

That's a huge difference, and I think if your main reason for using a bass trumpet is the low register it matters.

But here's the thing: The most enormous difference is going to be the mouthpiece. If you want to play a brass instrument pitched an octave lower than a Bb trumpet to lay down some authoritative bass lines you're going to have to use a trombone mouthpiece. Fine, a small trombone mouthpiece that the catalog probably stresses is best-suited for alto trombone and bass trumpet, but it will still be vastly larger than any trumpet mouthpiece.

And here's the other thing: Once you're dealing with a mouthpiece that large, the difference between a bass trumpet and a valve trombone probably won't even register.
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cgaiii
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Mack Brass bass trumpet and I have played a Getzen. I use mine infrequently to give other people the leads and pick up lower parts in a wind group I play in. My experience (and as a trumpet player, I may have deficits with the large mouthpiece (I use a Bach 22C most of the time, as small as I can go and supposedly made for bass trumpet)) is that it is great in the upper range of the horn, nice tone, good intonation. However from about low D downward, it is not as nice. Slotting in poorer and sound quality not as good. Great horn for tenor parts, not bass parts, at least for me.
When I tried the Getzen, I did not find it to be substantially different to play, but it was definitely a more solid feeling horn and better equipped. Last I heard, they had one used at Chuck Levins (Washington Music Center) for around $500.
You could call Lee Walkowich there and ask. You can get the Mack Brass one new for a little less. They will give it to you on trial if you want.
I am currently looking for a four valve one (usually in C, but some in Bb) in hopes of extending the range downward a bit.
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J.D. Heckathorn
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apologies for the Zombie thread revival but figured I'd post what I went with considering all the great replies and advice on what to look for in a bass trumpet. I got one of the Chinese stencils and it was a huge disappointment. It was just a lower trumpet, had no beef and was basically unusable in the lower register. I returned it and decided the advice from above where someone pointed out how important the larger bore size and bell is was right on the money from my experience. I continued looking but sort of gave up bc of the exorbitant prices of anything other than the Chinese models.

Then I stumble upon one on eBay that I ended up getting totally at random. Hadn't looked for a bit then hopped on eBay and just kinda fell onto it. My question now is, what the heck did I buy? The brand is apparently Krispey on the bell but sounds like it could be a persons name. Maybe a one-off custom job? The shape looks close to a Bach wrap, the hex valve caps and buttons doesn't narrow down to a brand or make. Anyway I'm looking forward to giving it a try. Here's some pics if anyone has any idea who made it would love your thoughts.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/KRISPEY-Bb-B-FLAT-BASS-TRUMPET-Rare-/153506929865?hash=item23bdb9dcc9%3Ag%3AWPoAAOSw3etc7uo9&nma=true&si=cMPBnxPrfubAbRRCV%252F%252BGWwpd%252BX8%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

***tried to post screenshot pics but had a difficult time with this forum UI and hosting required hence the eBay link so sorry fellas[/img]
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WaveVector
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would recommend Bach B188 otherwise you might try a rotary model from Germany. I have owned a B188, nothing else in the US or China will beat it.
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delano
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bach? Getzen!
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WaveVector
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have owned both Getzen and Bach bass trumpets. I prefer the Bach.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheiden wrote:
J.D. Heckathorn wrote:
I thought of pitch shifting but I honestly have to be that guy and say I'd prefer to play music than engineer it. Also I create better with instruments than with a mouse and keyboard, nothing wrong with that of course just not as inspirational .

I thought to suggest pitch shifting primarily because you mentioned the possibility of using effects like distortion plug-ins. I'm fairly certain you can pitch shift real-time without needing to resort to mouse and keyboard.

FWIW I stumbled on a gal using a flugel and some digital magic to play tuba parts.
https://youtu.be/0dOg_26E5Lo
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petenerch
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have 2 used lacquer Getzen Bb Bass Trumpets for sale. $895.00 each. Not sure what vintage, but I would think I could find that out. They are not beautiful, but play well and were just serviced by my brass repairman. One of them is out on loan playing Gotterdammerung this week. If interested send me a private message. It is not on our website at the moment.

Peter your trumpet guy at Hickeys Music
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Stevenplaysbrass
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I play a silver plated Getzen Eterna bass trumpet and really love it. Intonation is great for me. With some mouthpiece trial and error I found a King M21 gives me a bass trombone-ish sound down low and a slightly rounder tenor trombone sound up high.
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