"What Is A Stencil Horn?"

tom turner · Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 6:18 am Post subject:

TimBrown asked, "What do you mean by "stencil?" in another thread about a vintage trumpet he'd bought with an obscure name. I realized that this would be of interest to many people if there are others unfamiliar with this term.

This was a term has been around the music industry for at least 100 years. It still is applicable today.

A "STENCIL" HORN . . .

It is a term applied to designate a horn that was ordered by a music store to be used as a private label instrument for their exclusive sales.

It was said that they only "stenciled" their brand or store's name on the horn (although in fact it was of course engraved on the bell). This meant they did not design or manufacture the horn, simply had it made as a non-competitive "profit maker" for the store.

Today everyone knows the term "bait and switch." In those days a music store would lure someone in for, let's say, a Conn "Wonder" which everyone sold . . . then switch 'em to their private lablel instrument which was "better." It was a way to make more profit.

Some stencil horns were of good quality . . . most were terrible.

At the turn of the 20th century, Couesnon was a maker of mass quantities of stencil horns and by 1925 the claimed to have made over two million instruments! There were many other stencil makers too. Keep in mind, this was the "glory days" of brass band music and EVERYONE wanted, and bought brass instruments.

Lyon and Healy, a store in Chicago, imported a ton of stencils with their name on the bell from the Civil War through 1940, yet didn't make an instrument themselves except for seven years (1923-30). Some were good instruments, some . . .

J.W. Pepper did it the other way, starting as a manufacturer then (in the late 19th century) becoming only an importer of cheaper European instruments. This so outraged the Conn company that they sued J.W. Pepper.

The Pepper prices that outraged Conn? Well, in the 1890s they had a cornet for "everyone!" NINETY-EIGHT versions to be exact . . . from eight dollars to sixty-five! I've played some good Peppers . . . and some terrible ones.

The stencil practice continues today, with some music stores ordering instruments made for them exclusively.

It's a practice not limited to the music business. In every field of marketing there are private label products made to be sold without the threat of direct, price-shopping competition. It's a way a firm can make a little extra and not have to price match.

Sincerely,

Tom Turner

NOTE: Informational material for this reply came from Dr. Richard Schwartz outstanding book, "The Cornet Compendium" I recommend this book highly to all collectors of instruments!

_PhilPicc · Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 8:12 am Post subject:

Thanks Tom,

There was a music store in Detroit and surrounding suburbs by the name of Grinnell's. (sp)
They everything from harmonicas, woodwinds, brass and including pianos under their name.

It was a great music store but was not able to survive. As to the quality I can't say. They were a Conn dealer which is what got me into their stores.
_________________
Philip Satterthwaite

We cannot expect you to be with us all the time, but perhaps you could be good enough to keep in touch now and again."
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TimBrown · Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 4:52 pm Post subject:

thanks for the definition. BTW, I did a search for these type of horns and I saw Conn's name involved.

Again, for the money I paid...$27...I can't cry too loud regardless...and it may just be fine. One individual here mentioned it looks like an olds, although I've been fixated on trying to get the engraving "rank" to be "Frank" as in "Holton".

Looks good in the pictures, such as they are....and the person told me the valves are good but we'll see. Hey, maybe it's a good lamp project!!!

Tim
_________________
Kanstul Meha .470
L.A. Benge 3x+ 9879
1912 Holton New Proportion cornet
Kanstul CCF 925 flugel
King 1122 MFH
Holton Dual Bell

10 out of 10 people die. Do you consider yourself to be a good person?

trumplyr · Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 6:24 pm Post subject:

Phil,

Don't forget about Royal Music in Royal Oak back when it was owned by Herb Couf and his brother. They had an entire line of "Couf" instruments, brass and woodwinds. I don't have any idea who really made them.

Marty

[ This Message was edited by: trumplyr on 2003-11-27 21:25 ]

JackD · Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 12:42 pm Post subject:

That was really interesting, thanks Tom.

plp · Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 4:17 am Post subject:

I took a flyer on a double french horn for my son, under the brand name 'Tam', and ended up with a Conn 8B, slides on his school horn are identical, as well as the bell flair and tubing routing. The only difference I have been able to find is where the bracing is placed.
Stencils can be a good thing, as this one came in under the ebay radar, and we have a great horn for under 250.00.

(Well, maybe not great, after all it is still a french horn)

farbewerk · Regular Member Joined: 18 Nov 2003 Posts: 26

I found a tremendous list of stencil horn manufacturers on a sax site. I have no idea if it cooresponds to brass stencils but I thought I'd throw it in. Can anyone confirm or update this list? Very interesting.

AMERICAN ARTIST: BUESCHER OR MARTIN
ACADEMY: BUESCHER
AMERICAN PROFESSIONAL: CONN
AMERICAN KNIGHT: CONN
AMERICAN STANDARD: H. N. WHITE /KING
GREAT GRETSCH AMERICAN: CONN OR BUESCHER
GRETSCH ARTIST: CONN
DICK STABILE: MARTIN
GRETSCH: CONN, MARTIN
ARTIST: BUESCHER
ARTIST BRAND: CONN
BARONET: BUESCHER?
BRUNO: CONN
BUNDY: CONN, BUESCHER, SELMER
CAPITOL BAND INSTRUMENTS: ?
CARL FISCHER: BUFFET OR BUESCHER
CAVALIER: CONN
CLEVELAND: H. N. WHITE/ KING
COLE AMERICAN: CONN
CLAXTON: CONN
CONTINENTAL: CONN
COLONIAL: CONN (MARTIN ALSO?)
COURTURIER: CONN
GRAND RAPIDS BAND INSTRUMENT COMPANY: YORK
EMBASSY: BUESCHER
H. N. WHITE: KING
HARWOOD PROFESSIONAL, JENKINS MUSIC COMPANY: CONN, BUESCHER
CONCERTONE: MARTIN
ELKHART: BUESCHER
ELKHORN: GETZEN
GLADIATOR: H. N. WHITE COMPANY
HARMONY: BUESCHER?
GRAND OPERA: CONN
INTERLOCHEN: MARTIN
INDIANA: MARTIN
JENKINS: CONN
LAVELLE: BUESCHER
LEFLEUR: CONN
LIBERTY C.K.C.: CONN
OLIVER DITSON: BUESCHER
OLYMPIAN: CONN
ORPHEUM: CONN
ORPHEUM: SUPER CONN
VELVETONE, KEACH & GREEN, PHILADELPHIA, PA: CONN
PAN AMERICAN: CONN
HARRY PEDDLER: MARTIN
SEAR AND ROEBUCK: CONN
SILVERTONE: BUESCHER
WURLITZER: MARTIN, CONN OR BUESCHER

Brass Monkey · Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 11:23 am Post subject:

I have an old pea-shooter style stencil trumpet, without any markings at all. A stencil without the stencil...
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oneeyedhobbit · Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:05 pm Post subject:

plp-bracing can still be very important however, I'd be worried-but if it plays great, then I'm glad for you.

And to the list of stencils, lets not forget to add this one:

ZeuS-Kanstul

Just kidding all, don't mean to start a war-I've never had the opportunity to play a Zeus, but I'm sure they are fine instruments.

TimBrown · Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 1:23 pm Post subject: Serial numbers for stencils???

Just wondering if there is a place where I could find the Serial number range for my Fischer. I've looked around and haven't really found anything. I think Buescher made it but I'm not sure that really helps.

THe horn plays great actually. It's nice and open. Not as much as my CHI1070 but for $50, it was a good deal!

thanks,

tim
_________________
Kanstul Meha .470
L.A. Benge 3x+ 9879
1912 Holton New Proportion cornet
Kanstul CCF 925 flugel
King 1122 MFH
Holton Dual Bell

10 out of 10 people die. Do you consider yourself to be a good person?

bandman322 · Posted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 5:42 pm Post subject:

So who makes the Schmidt Horns sold at Brook Mays?

Schmidt Silver Strad Trumpet w/Case - 37S

I was told by the salesman at the Brook Mays store in New Orleans that the Schmidt Silver Strad Trumpet w/Case - 37S is "without a doubt the best trumpet made in the world." Of course he also told me that the horn was "much more staccato" than the Bach Strad, which he described as "Legato". I didn't bother to tell the guy I was a band director, much less a trumpet player -- I just let him go off on how superior the Schmidt was as compared to the Bach and Yamaha. The bad thing is that some parents probably buy this guys line and buy it instead to a Bach.
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Picc - Schilke P5-4
Flugel - Kanstul ZKF1525
Bb - Bach Strad 180ML-37

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Mark Bradley · Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:05 am Post subject:

Here's an old post brought back from the dead! But any help anyone could provide would be appreciated. I bought this "Harwood Professional" trumpet (see link), sold by Jenkins Music here locally in Kansas City way back when. I just couldn't resist picking it up because of the local historical connection-- Jenkins used to be the music store back in the old days (plus this horn was really cheap!).

So my question to the learned trumpet aficionados out there-- this is obviously a "stencil" horn. Where can I find more about it, such as whether it is a Conn or Buescher, and if so what model? When was it made, etc.?

http://cgi.ebay.com/JW-JENKINS-Sons-MUSIC-CO-VINTAGE-Trumpet-6148-KC-MO_W0QQitemZ130051141756QQihZ003QQcategoryZ16214QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Thanks!

tbrinson · Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:26 am Post subject:

Our local music store has a line called "Benjamin." The trumpets and trombones are made by Blessing and are generally not very good. The Benjamin line also carries saxophones. Many people opt for this instrument instead of going to the professional quality instruments. And I suppose, as Tom mentioned, that is the purpose for carrying these instruments.
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giantsteps · Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2006 1:27 pm Post subject:

i have a tribert modern flugelhorn that was manufactured by couesnon....it's essentially a couesnon star...
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