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EBjazz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2001 Posts: 2368 Location: SF Bay Area
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AlexA15 Regular Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2011 Posts: 92 Location: Windsor, UK
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Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 11:23 am Post subject: |
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jonalan wrote: | AlexA15 wrote: | The harmony's and scales & modes are fine I know all of them more or less perfectly as well as 7 theory. |
All of them, huh? Sorry, it cracks me up when I hear people say this. Just curious, how many scales do you think there are? |
Well the 12(15) major, and the 12(15) minor - Currently I've done a few modes (diatonic, pentatonic etc.) but I still have a fair amount to go. _________________ Alex Argiantopoulos, 17
Grade 7
Conn Vintage 1BS
Vincent Bach 3C |
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plankowner110 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 3626
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jonalan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Dec 2005 Posts: 705 Location: "Show Me"
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Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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AlexA15 wrote: | jonalan wrote: | AlexA15 wrote: | The harmony's and scales & modes are fine I know all of them more or less perfectly as well as 7 theory. |
All of them, huh? Sorry, it cracks me up when I hear people say this. Just curious, how many scales do you think there are? |
Well the 12(15) major, and the 12(15) minor... |
You're leaving out a few (hundred), but that's OK, you're just in 7th grade. You still have lots of time to learn more (or learn that there are more). _________________ Stomvi VRII Bb
Kanstul 1525 Flugel
GR pieces |
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Michael Drapp Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 410 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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I remember when I was your age I was playing around 6 hours each day and wished that I could play more! It seemed to me that I was always on my horn and it must have driven my parents nuts
I found the Claude Gordon method books absolutely fantastic for building up my range and endurance. A year playing his daily techniques will give you the range that you need and then some. Do a lot of pedal notes followed by slurs up to double high C (you will be able to do this after about a year). Strike the valves hard and blow with all that you have because when you play lead you are going to need plenty of air, speed and dexterity.
For fun, after a hard/concentrated practice session (3 hours) you might try the various "play along" CD's that have the method books included with them. You can learn jazz and blues improvisation and get pretty comfortable with the changes and different scales. I used to just put Maynard on my record player when I was your age and just try to wail along with him; ditto for other players that I respected. I learned a lot about technique during these "sessions" _________________ Michael R. Drapp,
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA |
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Leonel Leon Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Jan 2011 Posts: 145
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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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The Arban book might seem like it isn't much fun, I felt the same when I was first told to get one... I thought it was just a bunch of hard pieces that would make a lot of trumpet players struggel. That was 7th grade now I am in 11th, and the stuff in the book is fun. It is more challanging then the boring pieces in class and once you learn how to handel the pieces in there they are just a wonder to play and all of the solos inquire so much of what you learn in the book. After you feel great that you can play through stuff that once made you struggle. After you have learned the basics and get a firm hold on them playing will be more fun then it is you'll enjoy everything besides pomp and circumstance. Which I think drives everyone crazy. |
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jonalan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Dec 2005 Posts: 705 Location: "Show Me"
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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:50 am Post subject: |
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Michael Drapp wrote: | ... blow with all that you have ... |
Not sure I agree with that one.
Quote: | ... after a hard/concentrated practice session (3 hours) ... |
A 3 hour practice session??? I'm hoping you break that into several shorter sessions and not one, long 3-hour straight session. That would be counter-productive. _________________ Stomvi VRII Bb
Kanstul 1525 Flugel
GR pieces |
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AlexA15 Regular Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2011 Posts: 92 Location: Windsor, UK
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 6:21 am Post subject: |
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Would you recommend the Allen Vizzuti Trumpet Method, Book 1: Technical Studies? I just purchased it in hope of improvement of my range and overall ability. _________________ Alex Argiantopoulos, 17
Grade 7
Conn Vintage 1BS
Vincent Bach 3C |
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Dave2126 Regular Member
Joined: 21 Jul 2011 Posts: 35 Location: United States
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:16 am Post subject: |
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I'm not an expert Alex, just a struggling intermediate trumpet player, but I have been using the Allen Vizzuti Trumpet Method, Book 1 at the recommendation of my private instructor. It's been helpful with many aspects of my playing, including range. The long tone studies at the beginning of this book were very helpful with my tone. There's really a wealth of material, and it's interesting.
I'm also using Vizzuti's Book 3, Melodic Studies. It's a real pleasure to use as Vizzuti writes so well. |
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trumpetingbynature Regular Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 97 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:28 am Post subject: "I Have No Range :(" |
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Dear Alex:
First of all, two hours per day of practice is pretty good for a young man.
But if you really want to pursue trumpet playing at a conservatory level, you'll want to gradually increase that time to 4-5 hours per day.
There are many things you can do to make practicing more fun: Jamey Aebersold's CDs are one, Rich Willey's etudes/duets are another (www.boptism.com), Chase Sanborn also has some great stuff out there, and the Vizzutti and Sandoval books are recent excellent additions to trumpet repertoire.
Range development comes from proper use of the body and your air support (it's actually not hard to play high---usually if you are struggling with this it's because you are 1. Overblowing (using too much air for your lips to resist) 2. Using too much pressure (pressing to get higher never works for very long and can seriously injure the lips) 3. Not using enough core/body support (you should pull up and in with the tummy when you blow, as if coughing or throwing up for very high or loud notes) 4. Not using a properly matched mouthpiece/horn combination 5. Not working with your natural "playing arc" or the connection between your chops and the horn (or some combination of the above).
If you like, I'd be happy to do a SKYPE session for you to help you figure out what you could be doing better.
Let me know what time would work for you (and please adjust the time, since I'm on the East Coast of the USA, and there is a time difference between us).
Blessings,
Jeanne _________________ Mizpah, Jeanne Gabriel Pocius
(978)317-4731
Professeur d'Trompette, Ecole de Musique Ste Trinite, Port-au-Prince, Haiti
www.instrumentalchange.org
TPIN's Chop Doc
Author of "Trumpeting, By Nature"
www.outskirtspress.com/jeannegpocius |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8939 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:48 am Post subject: |
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AlexA15 wrote: | Would you recommend the Allen Vizzuti Trumpet Method, Book 1: Technical Studies? I just purchased it in hope of improvement of my range and overall ability. |
I frequently recommend the Vizzutti books because I found them uniquely helpful before I found my way to private lessons. I don't think they are a magic bullet for range and endurance but they seemed to do a better job of touching all the bases and making me an all-around better player. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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silverhorn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2003 Posts: 682
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Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:03 am Post subject: Re: "I Have No Range :(" |
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trumpetingbynature wrote: | Dear Alex:
First of all, two hours per day of practice is pretty good for a young man.
But if you really want to pursue trumpet playing at a conservatory level, you'll want to gradually increase that time to 4-5 hours per day.
There are many things you can do to make practicing more fun: Jamey Aebersold's CDs are one, Rich Willey's etudes/duets are another (www.boptism.com), Chase Sanborn also has some great stuff out there, and the Vizzutti and Sandoval books are recent excellent additions to trumpet repertoire.
Range development comes from proper use of the body and your air support (it's actually not hard to play high---usually if you are struggling with this it's because you are 1. Overblowing (using too much air for your lips to resist) 2. Using too much pressure (pressing to get higher never works for very long and can seriously injure the lips) 3. Not using enough core/body support (you should pull up and in with the tummy when you blow, as if coughing or throwing up for very high or loud notes) 4. Not using a properly matched mouthpiece/horn combination 5. Not working with your natural "playing arc" or the connection between your chops and the horn (or some combination of the above).
If you like, I'd be happy to do a SKYPE session for you to help you figure out what you could be doing better.
Let me know what time would work for you (and please adjust the time, since I'm on the East Coast of the USA, and there is a time difference between us).
Blessings,
Jeanne |
Great stuff! I got Jeanne's book and it was extremely helpful since I had alot of those problems with overblowing, pressure, and not using my natural "playing arc", etc. I would highly recommend a consult with her as she is one of the premier chop docs and be sure to get her book too and you will get on the right track for improved performance! |
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percivalthehappyboy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 Posts: 731
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Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: "I Have No Range :(" |
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This looks like good advice, but I'm sure I don't understand part of it.
trumpetingbynature wrote: | Dear Alex:
Range development comes from proper use of the body and your air support (it's actually not hard to play high---usually if you are struggling with this it's because you are 1. Overblowing (using too much air for your lips to resist)... 3. Not using enough core/body support (you should pull up and in with the tummy when you blow, as if coughing or throwing up for very high or loud notes) |
Correct if I'm wrong, but this looks like you're saying that we'll struggle with range if we're blowing too hard or else not blowing hard enough. |
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trumpetingbynature Regular Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 97 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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Either overblowing or not supporting the air sufficiently (with core muscles) can impede upper register playing.
Overblowing can inhibit the upper range by causing the lips to collapse because they are not strong enough to resist the airstream. Backing off on the QUANTITY/volume of air, and increasing the QUALITY/speed of the airstream will usually solve this issue.
And the airstream speed is controlled by the core muscles (upper abdominal and lower back muscles--yes the same muscles you develop by doing Pilates exercises or crunches).
so the quick answer to your question, percival, is "Yes"
Blessings,
Jeanne _________________ Mizpah, Jeanne Gabriel Pocius
(978)317-4731
Professeur d'Trompette, Ecole de Musique Ste Trinite, Port-au-Prince, Haiti
www.instrumentalchange.org
TPIN's Chop Doc
Author of "Trumpeting, By Nature"
www.outskirtspress.com/jeannegpocius |
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ljazztrm Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2001 Posts: 2681 Location: Queens and upstate, NY
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Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | And the airstream speed is controlled by the core muscles (upper abdominal and lower back muscles--yes the same muscles you develop by doing Pilates exercises or crunches). |
And I'm finding jumping rope and sprinting are absolutely GREAT to develop these msucles...you can google a lot of information on this.
Also, Frank Campos recommends a Pilates derived exercise (I think) called 'The PLank Exercise'. Really fantastic for developing the whole core. Just work up with all these exercises gradually or you can have some bad playing days where you're endurance and range are down. All the best, Lex _________________ Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com |
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jvrs New Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2012 Posts: 5 Location: Mesa, AZ
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:19 am Post subject: |
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Hope you find something that motivates you! |
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AlexA15 Regular Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2011 Posts: 92 Location: Windsor, UK
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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I've been practicing a lot over the course of these couple of months and I am proud to say that I am comfortably able to get D over C above the stave. I'd say its mainly down to the Vizzuti Trumpet Method Book - combining, lip flex, technical studies and range development. _________________ Alex Argiantopoulos, 17
Grade 7
Conn Vintage 1BS
Vincent Bach 3C |
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trumpet1256 Regular Member
Joined: 23 May 2009 Posts: 82
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Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:55 am Post subject: Lack of Range? |
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In order to create range, foundation practice must be developed. Once a routine is put into PRACTICE muscle memory and a mental focus are achieved. Don't be worried about range over night it will get there. Start out with some basic routines as in direction of a good teacher. Just my two cents guys!
Jon A.
Jupiter 1600i XO
GR 64Z
Bach 5c |
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kalijah Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2003 Posts: 3288 Location: Alabama
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Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:12 am Post subject: |
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trumpetingbynature wrote: Quote: | And the airstream speed is controlled by the core muscles (upper abdominal and lower back muscles |
The muscles involved in exhalation (and sometimes inhalation) control the pressure of the air.
Range (that is, a lack thereof) is NOT an air problem it is NEVER an air problem.
It is an embouchure problem.
Yes, backing off on the air pressure can give the embouchure a chance to develop when learning But ultimately the embochure of a developed player must be able to produce pitches for both loud dynamics and soft dynamics. Loud dynamics require more air pressure and soft require less. Range is not a function of air pressure and must be developed independent of it.
"Overblowing" as descibed in an above post is actually "embouchure underdevelopment".
The air pressure provided by an accomplished player that will yield a bold loud pitch may produce a poor tone from an underdeveloped player. The difference between the two is not the "blowing" but yet the tonal development via the embouchure. |
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CFieldville New Member
Joined: 30 Mar 2012 Posts: 2
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Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:00 am Post subject: |
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Seriously, what you need is a mental overhaul. The best way for a kid your age and with your mental state is to come to the US and march World Class drum corps. This will teach you to overcome your lack in drive and just maybe you can pick up some range since a corps spends at least 3 hours a day on the fundamentals of brass playing.
You are international so it will be easy to find sponsorship becuase Drum Corps International wants to glorify the International aspect of the activity. |
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