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Brassnose
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Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 2124
Location: Germany
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 Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 9:13 am Post subject: |
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I guess what I’m trying to say is simply: if I were that kid I’d be happy to play and be left with my own decisions or decision made with my teacher  There really isn’t a need for anyone else to complicate things.
Are you switching teachers simply because the current one suggests the 7C? If yes, you might want to reevaluate that decision.
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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kalijah
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3288
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Are you switching teachers simply because the current one suggests the 7C? If yes, you might want to reevaluate that decision. |
If the teacher insists on a 7C then Get a new teacher ASAP. ESPECIALLY if this teacher requires mouthpiece-only buzzing.
A Bach 10 1/2 C is also a reasonable option but not as good as the Schilke I mentioned. Schilke 11A (or Bach 10 1/2 C), or if student is unusually mature in facial growth and/or has larger teeth/lips structure use Schilke 12B4 (or Bach 3C) |
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chef8489
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 870
Location: Johnson City Tn
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| kalijah wrote: | | Quote: | | Are you switching teachers simply because the current one suggests the 7C? If yes, you might want to reevaluate that decision. |
If the teacher insists on a 7C then Get a new teacher ASAP. ESPECIALLY if this teacher requires mouthpiece-only buzzing.
A Bach 10 1/2 C is also a reasonable option but not as good as the Schilke I mentioned. Schilke 11A (or Bach 10 1/2 C), or if student is unusually mature in facial growth and/or has larger teeth/lips structure use Schilke 12B4 (or Bach 3C) |
This is ridiculous. There are amazing world class teachers and professional players that both promote mouthpiece buzzing , free buzzing, and leadpipe buzzing as well as a 7c or any other mouthpiece that fits the students dental structure, lips, and facial creatures. I guarantee they are far better players than you and far more world recognize than you are..
Anyone that is that biased and so set against this that goes around demanding people get a new teacher usually shouldn't be listened to as they have a personal bias against things, are not objective, and can't accept different opinions and techniques.
_________________
Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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BreakFromTheHerd
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Joined: 12 Apr 2022
Posts: 147
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 9:49 am Post subject: |
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A Bach 7C was included with my new Bach 43. It's a dreadful mouthpiece. I mean, it should be taken out and shot.
Having said that ...
I started on a Bach Corp. 7C in 7th grade and excelled on it. I was much smaller then and it worked for me. I could play the Haydn on it in 8th grade with no issues.
If my mother had tried to meddle, I think my band director would have scolded her (and rightly so). |
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jkrz
Regular Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2024
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| Brassnose wrote: | I guess what I’m trying to say is simply: if I were that kid I’d be happy to play and be left with my own decisions or decision made with my teacher There really isn’t a need for anyone else to complicate things.
Are you switching teachers simply because the current one suggests the 7C? If yes, you might want to reevaluate that decision. |
No; the teacher is young and primarily teaches students that have never played the instrument. My son has shown some interest and promise (being accepted into an honors ensemble), so we will likely at some point look to a more seasoned instructor that has worked with advancing/serious students. |
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kalijah
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3288
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| I will not be intimidated. I have seen too many young players WRECKED by the nonsense. A lucky few may succeed in spite of it. Most are not so lucky. |
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chef8489
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 870
Location: Johnson City Tn
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| jkrz wrote: | | Brassnose wrote: | I guess what I’m trying to say is simply: if I were that kid I’d be happy to play and be left with my own decisions or decision made with my teacher There really isn’t a need for anyone else to complicate things.
Are you switching teachers simply because the current one suggests the 7C? If yes, you might want to reevaluate that decision. |
No; the teacher is young and primarily teaches students that have never played the instrument. My son has shown some interest and promise (being accepted into an honors ensemble), so we will likely at some point look to a more seasoned instructor that has worked with advancing/serious students. |
I would wait to change the mouthpiece till you change teachers and your son child gets further on their path. Changing mouthpieces too soon and too often can be quite detrimental to a new students playing and progress. If he is currently playing well and feels comfortable on the piece, he should stick with it till he progresses with it further.
The helicopter parent comment was not about making your child focused in practicing. All kids need to be told to go practice from time to time and some kids need it more. It was directed at you about the equiptment, especially since you are not a trumpet player or a teacher of trumpet. Moving up from a crappy amazon horn is one thing as they are really garbage, but when it comes to mouthpiece sizes, that is a total different matter and really should be left up to a teacher and the student.
If you really want to get away from the Amazon mouthpiece , pick up a brand name 7c or take your child and try a bunch of different mouthpieces like a 5c and other brands with a trumpet teacher that is knowledgeable and let them pick something that feels good and plays well and fits your child's mouth and works for them. It could be another 7c or very similar brand and size.
_________________
Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger
Last edited by chef8489 on Mon May 13, 2024 10:04 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Brassnose
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 2124
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 10:00 am Post subject: |
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@jkrz: ok, that makes sense. Let us all know how things move along (and which mouthpiece survives  ).
_________________
2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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chef8489
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 870
Location: Johnson City Tn
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| kalijah wrote: | | I will not be intimidated. I have seen too many young players WRECKED by the nonsense. A lucky few may succeed in spite of it. Most are not so lucky. |
And I have seen too many students been screwed up by crappy teachers with huge egos that think they know it all and been completly wrong because they can't accept that there are other ways than their own..
_________________
Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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BreakFromTheHerd
Veteran Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2022
Posts: 147
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 10:14 am Post subject: |
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Jeremy Miloszewicz had a YouTube video showing his daughter, who was ten or eleven at the time, hitting a high F on a Bach 7C. Not sure if it's still up, but it was pretty mind-blowing. And she didn't just have range; she was developing technique, too.
So it definitely works for some players. |
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kalijah
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2003
Posts: 3288
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | they can't accept that there are other ways than their own. |
I am not saying there are not other ways. I am saying there are more effective ways. Requiring a beginner to buzz encourages a forced, raucous, inefficient sound in MOST players. Many NEVER escape that habit. Having seen far better results with a different non-buzzing approach is my experience.
I am by far not the only one that is no fan of the 7C for beginners. |
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acritzer
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Nov 2009
Posts: 830
Location: Cincinnati, OH
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 10:24 am Post subject: |
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FWIW.... I am a trumpet player. Not a pro, but I do get paid for gigs. I am also a band director teaching beginners through HS. I also have a 10 year old son that chose the trumpet and began this past school year.
It would be better for you to spend time finding a good teacher rather than trying to find a different mouthpiece. I definitely wouldn't recommend "experimenting". Young players need consistency and time to develop. Any reasonably sized mouthpiece will be just fine. If a good, quality teacher recommends one over another that's fine, as long as they stay on that piece for a significant amount of time. |
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chef8489
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011
Posts: 870
Location: Johnson City Tn
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| kalijah wrote: | | Quote: | | they can't accept that there are other ways than their own. |
I am not saying there are not other ways. I am saying there are more effective ways. Requiring a beginner to buzz encourages a forced, raucous, inefficient sound in MOST players. Many NEVER escape that habit. Having seen far better results with a different non-buzzing approach is my experience.
I am by far not the only one that is no fan of the 7C for beginners. |
As far as starting out on a different mouthpiece then fine. The mouthpiece should fit the player be it something other than a 7c or even a 7c as the 7c do work for a crap load of people. A student will adapt to whatever they start on. Heck trombone players learn to play on large mouthpieces. That being said, op child started and has been on a 7c for 1.5 years. It might not be the right time to switch said student..
As far as buzzing is concerned. If your teaching approach is not to buzz, that's fine. As I stated, many world class players and teachers use mouthpiece buzzing as well as other techniques as well. I am a proponent of using mouthpiece buzzing in moderation.
_________________
Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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mograph
Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Feb 2020
Posts: 161
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| Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| BreakFromTheHerd wrote: | Jeremy Miloszewicz had a YouTube video showing his daughter, who was ten or eleven at the time, hitting a high F on a Bach 7C. Not sure if it's still up, but it was pretty mind-blowing. And she didn't just have range; she was developing technique, too.
So it definitely works for some players. |
Not a pro here, but I was working on high notes, picked up my old Benge 7C, and blew a strong, full, easy double C. I checked it with the tuner (that was already on), because I didn't believe it.
So YMMV.
_________________
1985 Bach 37
1980 King 601 (it's bulletproof!)
1978 Couesnon flugelhorn
Playing for fun since 1979.
Fmr member 48th Highlanders of Canada Mil Band
Into that jazz devil music |
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david johnson
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Joined: 09 Jul 2002
Posts: 1624
Location: arkansas/missouri
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| Posted: Tue May 14, 2024 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| Just leave the both 3c and 7c in the case. He'll mess around with each and go with what works best. |
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jondrowjf@gmail.com
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Joined: 15 Jul 2016
Posts: 739
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 11:28 am Post subject: Different mouthpieces |
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I am definitely not a expert on mouthpieces or playing the trumpet. If I read your post correctly, your son plays a different trumpet at school, and at your home. So he plays the same brand, size of mouthpiece at both places? Maybe the jump from a 7 C to a 3 C is to drastic for him. Could he ask his band director or trumpet teacher to try out a smaller size : 10.5 C or 5C mouthpieces? That is if his teachers don't feel it would be detrimental to his playing.
I am surprised you haven't bought a trumpet for yourself.
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Current cornets and mouthpieces:
Jupiter 520 M shepherds crook cornet
Blessing XL shepherds crook cornet (waiting )
Denis Wick 4 W classic gold mouthpiece
Jupiter 9e mouthpiece |
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jkrz
Regular Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2024
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Different mouthpieces |
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| jondrowjf@gmail.com wrote: | I am definitely not a expert on mouthpieces or playing the trumpet. If I read your post correctly, your son plays a different trumpet at school, and at your home. So he plays the same brand, size of mouthpiece at both places? Maybe the jump from a 7 C to a 3 C is to drastic for him. Could he ask his band director or trumpet teacher to try out a smaller size : 10.5 C or 5C mouthpieces? That is if his teachers don't feel it would be detrimental to his playing.
I am surprised you haven't bought a trumpet for yourself. |
I know way too much about trumpets for a non-player. You are correct, the Amazon trumpet goes to school with the generic 7C it came with, he practices on the XO with a Jupter 7C. I don't know how close the two 7Cs are but he does not notice a difference. Teacher is not adamant about not trying anything else but recommends just staying with the 7C, which we will likely do for now. |
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Tpt_Guy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 1108
Location: Sacramento, Ca
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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It's better to change one variable at a time. If he isn't yet used to his new horn, then wait on a mouthpiece change. Eventually he may become curious and want to try the 3C again. Making him play it now when it makes him tired is likely to cause him to develop bad habits and could ruin his playing in the long run.
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-Tom Hall-
"A good teacher protects his pupils from his own influence."
-Bruce Lee |
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MrOlds
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Apr 2003
Posts: 732
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu May 16, 2024 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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If this was my kid I would do everything I could to maximize his enjoyment and enthusiasm for playing a musical instrument.
No matter how far he goes with it, he’s getting an experience that 99% of everyone he’ll ever meet will never have. That’s a wonderful thing.
It’s his experience. Let him enjoy the journey. And who knows, when he’s an adult writing cutting edge algorithms for our AI overlords maybe having a joyful experience with music will wind up saving humanity from annihilation.
Just sayin’… |
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abontrumpet
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 1826
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| Posted: Fri May 17, 2024 5:16 am Post subject: |
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| kalijah wrote: | | No beginner should play on a 7C. |
For the record, it is a Jupiter 7C. Are you referring to a Bach 7C? |
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