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FunkySmurf
Regular Member
Joined: 04 Sep 2002
Posts: 52
Location: Beaverton, OR
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 Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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So is there anywhere to get a new Lexan clear mouthpiece, size 6 that is on the pivot web site (or should I say isn't on there)?
I'm sure its a needle in a haystack looking for a used one...
Rob |
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BeboppinFool
Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator
Joined: 28 Dec 2001
Posts: 6437
Location: AVL|NC|USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2002 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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I have an ancient plexiglas 6 mouthpiece that I ain't giving up if you put a gun to my head.
I really don't know what to tell you on this, except to keep asking everybody you know, and everytime you travel, too.
Maybe Paul Garrett has some influence over Dave Sheetz? Maybe Doug Elliot knows something about this? I don't know anything about getting other sizes in Lexan. Sorry.
Rich
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pair of kings
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2002
Posts: 1013
Location: York, PA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2002 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| those mad maxx mouthpieces are clear. they do have fins on the side. Actually they might be translucent. it was a thought |
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_PhilPicc
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2002
Posts: 2286
Location: Clarkston, Mi. USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2002 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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OK, I give;
Why a clear plexiglass mouthpiece?
Clueless in Clarkston, 
Phil
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We cannot expect you to be with us all the time, but perhaps you could be good enough to keep in touch now and again."
- Sir Thomas Beecham to a musician during a rehearsal |
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BeboppinFool
Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator
Joined: 28 Dec 2001
Posts: 6437
Location: AVL|NC|USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2002 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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That was an invention of Doc Reinhardt's so that he could really see what was happening inside the cup of the mouthpiece. Visualizers and rings, etc., don't really give you a true picture of what goes on in there, as Doc discovered.
They are great tools for determining things like upstream or downstream (there's no mistake when you can see it through a clear mouthpiece), and you can spot detrimental habits like tongue penetration to set the embouchure or tongue penetration to articulate notes.
The transparent plexiglas mouthpiece had only one flaw: they break. Lexan is reputed to be unbreakable, as the ABS mouthpieces are.
Rich
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Buzz
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 May 2002
Posts: 940
Location: McDonough, GA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2002 9:55 am Post subject: |
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I saw clear mouthpieces at NYBC for $20. I almost bought one. Kinda wish I had, now.
Meg |
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BeboppinFool
Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator
Joined: 28 Dec 2001
Posts: 6437
Location: AVL|NC|USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2002 10:03 am Post subject: |
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On 2002-09-11 12:55, Buzz wrote:
I saw clear mouthpieces at NYBC for $20. I almost bought one. Kinda wish I had, now.
Meg
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Really? What year . . . this year? Do you remember who was selling them?
Rich
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nieuwguyski
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 2358
Location: Santa Cruz County, CA
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pair of kings
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2002
Posts: 1013
Location: York, PA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2002 11:43 am Post subject: |
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what I saw at the brass conference was the mad max pieces. http://www.bestproducts.com/
doesn't look like it on the picture - but I am pretty sure they are clear. |
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Buzz
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 May 2002
Posts: 940
Location: McDonough, GA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2002 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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Really? What year . . . this year? Do you remember who was selling them?
Rich
It was this year, but I don't remember who was selling them. I think there was an online list of presenters and vendors. I'm pretty sure I saw that. Maybe it's still there. Put NYBC in a search engine... and well... you probably don't need me telling you what to do, too!
See ya!
Meg |
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walter
Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001
Posts: 428
Location: near Philadelphia
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| Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2002 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| [ This Message was edited by: walter on 2002-09-20 10:43 ] |
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BeboppinFool
Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator
Joined: 28 Dec 2001
Posts: 6437
Location: AVL|NC|USA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2002 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
On 2002-09-11 21:03, walter wrote:
The Lexan mouthpieces weren't clear; they were either white or yellowish-white. Doc also experimented with silver-plate and maybe gold-plate, but the plating wore off quickly.
The Lexans went through 2 generations when I studied with Doc. The first had a solid head, and the 2nd was hollow at the head, around the shank. Doc thought that they responded better.
The clear mouthpieces were only designed for embouchure analysis, because, as was said, they broke. The also scratched really easily.
Doc's brass mouthpieces [unplated] and the Lexan mouthpieces were designed as working mouthpieces ... not the clear plastic mouthpieces.
walter
wsharshon@hotmail.com
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Hey, Walter!
I think you've got ABS mixed up with Lexan. The original unbreakable plastic mouthpieces Doc was able to produce (in the whitish/ivory color) was made from ABS. In Doc's lifetime, I don't believe he ever saw production of the Lexan mouthpieces (clear and unbreakable), although Dave Sheetz can probably verify this. Doc always wanted clear mouthpieces, but the injection molding technology of the day wouldn't make them unbreakable, so they were "stuck" with the opaque ABS mouthpieces. Another factor was "feel" and they had to find a material that felt good to the chops.
Now, back in '81-'82 I was working with Dave on marketing the ABS mouthpieces and met with Doc and the guy from Margate who had originally financed the whole venture (I'll think of his name here soon -- Jim McCloskey, that's it). I learned a whole lot during those days, and actually was the one who did the research and wrote the brochures that Dave used back in the early 80's.
One thing I learned was that the reason they had to hollow out the "head" of those mouthpieces was that it was taking too long to cool and the shank of the mouthpiece was sorta floating and drifting away from being perfectly straight before they cooled down. So they hollowed out the "head" and had much better success with that, although occasionally the mouthpieces would still drift away from "true" during the cooling process. Doc didn't want to hollow them out because he knew that they looked kinda funny that way.
I know that the injection molding process is very controlled and you can achieve extremely faithful duplication of the original mouthpiece. That whole cooling off process, however, was a monkey wrench in the works that was not foreseen at all. Making those molds was also extremely expensive, and McCloskey backed Doc on that in the '50's and '60's but wasn't eager to help out in the '80's, and I don't really blame him.
Those mouthpieces never caught on. I felt bad for Doc, because they were never the way he envisioned them. Once they were made unbreakable, they were opague. Then the head had to be hollowed out, and they looked even stranger. Brass players are peculiar about their equipment. They'll play a trumpet with no plating and no lacquer that looks like total hell, but they won't use a "funny looking mouthpiece" . . . I got very discouraged by brass players' reactions to those mouthpieces, and finally in '88 I succumbed to peer pressure (I was living in NYC at the time) and went back to a standard metal mouthpiece.
Oh, well.
Rich
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[ This Message was edited by: BeboppinFool on 2002-09-11 23:07 ] |
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walter
Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001
Posts: 428
Location: near Philadelphia
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| Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2002 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| [ This Message was edited by: walter on 2002-09-20 10:44 ] |
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BeboppinFool
Donald Reinhardt Forum Moderator
Joined: 28 Dec 2001
Posts: 6437
Location: AVL|NC|USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2002 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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What's going on with all of Walter's posts? I'm looking through and it looks like he went through and deleted them all. What a drag! Does anybody know what's up with Walter?
Rich
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