Question about Conn 6B "Victor"

[MFHorn13]

Does anyone have any experience or input on the quality/playing characteristics of the Conn 6B Victor from the late 50's/early 60's? My hunch is it would be similar to my Connstellation 36B, but I'm not sure. I would be interesting in hearing some testimonials good or bad. I have an opportunity to acquire one, but just don't know enough without playing it to take the plunge. BTW, I don't believe it has a coprion lead pipe (maybe none of them do) Again, this is not my area of expertise.
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2006 Holton ST308 MF Horn
Early 2000's Holton ST307S MF Horn
1974 Holton ST304 MF Horn
1952 Martin Committee
1973 Holton ST200
1956 Conn Connstellation 38B
1990's Holton MF ST550
Late 1970's Holton ST304 MF Horn

[Dale Proctor]

I have a 1960 model, and it's a very good playing trumpet. Most 6B's had a Coprion leadpipe - I think the very early and very late ones didn't, though. I've never done a side-by-side comparison with a Connstellation, but a good friend who played a Connstellation for years said my 6B plays just like his Connie. They are pretty much the same horn as the Connstellation, but lack the 1st valve slide trigger and nickel plating on the bell. I've read that some Connstellations had Coprion bells and/or leadpipes under the nickel plate, but I don't think they were very common.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[Yammie]

There are two models of the Conn 6B. The earlier one has bottom sprung valves and does not have a Coprion leadpipe:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~cderksen/Conn6B1956image.html

The later model, which I think started in 1959, does have a Coprion leadpipe and top-sprung valves:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~cderksen/Conn6B196ximage.html

The earlier model also does not have the wider wrap common to both the later model and the Connstellation 28A/38B/36B. The early model is wrapped similar to the 1950-1955 28B Connstellation, a more standard trumpet wrap with a tighter bell curve and slightly more traditional appearance.

There is another minor variation not covered on Christine's site. The earliest models of the second generation 6B have Tri-C valves with exposed top springs, while they subsequently went to the covered top springs (Crysteel valves, I think). The exposed spring models have a thicker center band on the valve casings, similar to the look of earlier Connstellation 38Bs with exposed springs. I'm not able to discern a playing difference associated with the slight change in the valve casing or spring configuration, it's just another way to determine relative age.

I have both the early model 6B (and 6A long cornet) and the later model 6B (and 6A long cornet). Both models are fine players, but my preference is the later model. My favorite is a mint 1965 6B that does play like a 38B Connstellation, but the slightly lighter weight bell (lacquered brass vs. nickel plate on the Connstellation) and less nickel plating seems to make it a more versatile horn.

Despite being sold at the time as an intermediate horn, the 6B is manufactured with the same quality as the Connstellation. I think they are great horns, both early and late.

There are quite a few 6Bs out there, and since they didn't have the desirability in the day of the Connstellation, you may have better luck finding a really nice example. Mint or near-mint 6Bs are out there, and given their availability it's not justifiable to overhaul a high mileage model - just look for a better one!

[The usual vintage Conn caveats apply - look for an Elkhart horn (1970 and earlier). Texas horns from 1971 or so on aren't as well regarded. Conn Loyalist has erial number charts to help you determine age.]

One area to look at on 6Bs with Coprion leadpipes is the tuning slide and especially the tuning slide receiver tubes. Since the Coprion leadpipe doesn't succumb to red rot (at least I've never seen one with rot), and since these were often student horns with the slides left extended a little ways for years, red rot will first appear in the receiver tubes in the area left exposed. Finding replacement tubes of the correct diameter isn't easy.

I'm a little fond of the .438 bore Conns :
1956 6A
1955 6B
1959 6A x2
1965 6B
1955 28B
1955 28A
1959 28A
1965 38B
1965 36B
1966 36B
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6340S, Connstellation 36B, 38B, 38A, and 28A, Couesnon flugel, Blackburn C, Kanstul/Besson 920 picc, and a HUGE pile of Messina Covers gig bags

[Dale Proctor]

[Yammie]

Dale, that's a great deal. (I'll double your money....) Do your valves have the covered springs, or were they still the Tri-C exposed spring model?

I found two NOS versions, a 1966 in a music store in Virginia Beach with a wildly disorganized storeroom, and a 1965 that another fellow had bought NOS months earlier. Both still had the lyres, mouthpieces, and warranty cards! (1966 was sold to a deserving student in a fit of momentary sentimentality/weakness )

The 1955 6B was also NOS when the previous purchaser found it, and the valves were a little crunchy due to sitting sooooo long untouched. So he had Robb Stewart prep them and Andersen plate and lap them - thus I have a 1955 6B with modern valve clearances. Needless to say, it's a sweet horn.
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6340S, Connstellation 36B, 38B, 38A, and 28A, Couesnon flugel, Blackburn C, Kanstul/Besson 920 picc, and a HUGE pile of Messina Covers gig bags

[Dale Proctor]

[Yammie]

Dale,

I also got a 6B in school, actually 7th grade, to replace my Conn Director cornet. I also sold it in college, and regretted it later. So finding one in great condition was awesome, and it is an even better horn than I remembered.

That catalog photo looks like the early second generation model I referenced. It has the more bulging center section on the valve casings. the description says Crysteel valves with covered springs, but all three models I've seen (including both my 1959 6As, one of which is the one shown on Christine's site) with that larger bulging section have exposed springs. Later models have the same look, but the center section is much closer to the diameter of the rest of the casings and the valve springs are covered.

Yours looks to have the covered springs and smaller bulged section, so my supposition is that this change occurred from 1959-1960 and the catalog photo is actually a 1959 model. Data points disputing or disproving this timeline are encouraged!

And if anyone has a nice second generation 6A or 6B they're looking to sell, or a nice 10A/10B second generation, feel free to PM me... and not Dale
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6340S, Connstellation 36B, 38B, 38A, and 28A, Couesnon flugel, Blackburn C, Kanstul/Besson 920 picc, and a HUGE pile of Messina Covers gig bags

[MFHorn13]

Thanks for all of the responses. The horn that I have the opportunity to get is an "early" one, without the coprion lead pipe, and it's in just okay condition. Maybe I'll wait. Dale, your horn looks outstanding! Anyway, thanks again. I'll keep my eyes open for a primo one, sounds like a great horn.
_________________
2006 Holton ST308 MF Horn
Early 2000's Holton ST307S MF Horn
1974 Holton ST304 MF Horn
1952 Martin Committee
1973 Holton ST200
1956 Conn Connstellation 38B
1990's Holton MF ST550
Late 1970's Holton ST304 MF Horn

[brandonstewart]

Well, I've got an almost perfect one that I'm "considering" selling. It's from 1970 and looks exactly like the one above. Just a couple of small scratches in the lead pipe are the only imperfections I can see. If anyone is interested in making an offer drop me a note at brandon@bstewart.net. I can certainly provide pics as well.

[ConnArtist]

[gbdeamer]

[Yammie]

[Dale Proctor]

I've seen one 60's 6B go for over $800 on eBay, about 2 years ago. It was in pristine, all-original condition. I showed it to my wife so she would be OK with the $300 I spent on mine...
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[etorres16]

Help! I have a Conn 6B Victor - Early Model, that has some red rot developing on the leadpipe.

Any suggestions on what my options might be to get it fixed-replaced?

Or should I just let the horn live out its final few days.

[plp]