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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2437 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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bwoodard wrote: | Why doesn't Kanstul design their bugle so that you can just change slides to go from Bflat to G, similar to what Getzen does with the AHFT? The Getzen is a great horn but even with the BAA discount, it's still $700+. Kanstul forces you to buy 2 bugles at $250.00 each. |
I own the Getzen Field Trumpet M2003ES, which I purchased off eBay with the optional G slide for about $400. If you're a member of Bugles Across America, they occasionally sell used Getzens there, too.
The Getzen M2003ES uses the 172 bell which gives it a dark and rich sound. There's a TH member (can't remember his name) who's played both, felt the Kanstul projected a bit better, and purchased the Kanstul. I'm going on what I remember his comments to be (and may not remember exactly).
They're both great horns. My point is that you may prefer the sound of one over the other, and this may be more important than having the optional slide. |
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Getzen Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 1948
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 5:49 am Post subject: |
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I'm not sure where that $700 price came from, but that is more than the MSRP on the M2003E in silver plate (the most expensive model). A lacquered M2003 with a seamless bell sells for right around $350-400 including a special red, white, and blue soft sided case.
Brett Getzen _________________ Brett Getzen
President
Getzen Company
Follow Getzen on:
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/getzencompany/
Twitter https://twitter.com/GetzenCompany
If you have a question please feel free to email me at brett@getzen.com. |
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bwoodard Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2009 Posts: 623 Location: Mich.
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 8:09 am Post subject: |
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That price comes right off the BAA application for an AHFT. With the G slide, BAA engraving, and shipping, the cost was $709.00. I don't make stuff up! I understand that this price is all inclusive and the Kanstul price is not. However, I don't see shipping and a case adding $400+ to the final price. _________________ Veteran comebacker!
Bob
2015 Harrelson Summit 4/10
2014 Getzen 4895 Flugelhorn
2014 Getzen 3850
2010 Callet Sima Bb
2010 Callet Sima C
73 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
48 Conn 80A Victor Cornet |
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Getzen Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Posts: 1948
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:40 am Post subject: |
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I can't get to the page on the BAA listing the pricing for some reason. Keep in mind that every dealer sets their own pricing. For comparissons sake, look at WWBW. They sell a silver plated M2003 with a case for $471 with free shipping. A lacquered one would be $358. They don't list the G slide, but the MSRP on those is $80 in lacquer and $90 in silver plate. So, assuming they charged full MSRP for the G slides, you are looking at $438 for a lacquered M2003 with a case and G slide. Silver plated would run you $561.
I am wondering if the $709 price is for the M2003 Elite with the hand hammered bell. I only say this because everything I have ever heard before was that BAA sold the horns for much less than anyone else.
Granted, even at the WWBW price the M2003 is still more expensive than those from Kanstul or Amati. We don't produce the field trumpets as a money maker by any means. The more important thing is what they are to be used for. As long as players are performing Taps live, I am a happy man whether they are doing it on a Getzen, a Kanstul, a bugle, a trumpet, or a length of garden hose and a funnel. Anything is better than a recording on a boombox or those wonderfull little digital bugles.
Brett Getzen _________________ Brett Getzen
President
Getzen Company
Follow Getzen on:
Facebook https://www.facebook.com/getzencompany/
Twitter https://twitter.com/GetzenCompany
If you have a question please feel free to email me at brett@getzen.com. |
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ohiotpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jan 2008 Posts: 990
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, now this can't be a TH thread without a little controversy.
So get ready, here goes:
First take a look at some of the bugles discussed in this thread (and a couple of others):
Kanstul Regulation Field Bugle, An Amati 223, A Scoutbugle.com Centennial G Bugle, A Jupiter Brigadier Bugle, and a Getzen Field Trumpet (B-Flat with G Slide).
None of these are actually BUGLES...Look at their shape. They all have cylindrical bores. Which, makes them TRUMPETS. No valves, but still TRUMPETS. Which is why (I understand) Getzen markets theirs as the Getzen Field TRUMPET.
Bugles, have CONICAL bores, like so:
Now how's that for controversy? _________________ -fred
Lots of horns available to try and buy (or just try) in the Florida Treasure Coast area (Especially Kanstul trumpets) - PM if you'd like to stop by.
Last edited by ohiotpt on Tue May 18, 2010 12:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9389 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Dale Proctor wrote: | I have a Kanstul Bb field trumpet, ... |
I know the difference. _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2437 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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Getzen wrote: | I can't get to the page on the BAA listing the pricing for some reason. |
Maybe it was down temporarily. Here's the link.
http://www.fieldtrumpet.com/
Getzen wrote: | I am wondering if the $709 price is for the M2003 Elite with the hand hammered bell. I only say this because everything I have ever heard before was that BAA sold the horns for much less than anyone else. |
You're probably correct, that the $700 price is for the M2003E. I own the M2003ES, and am very happy with it. But my understanding is that the less-expensive M2003 is also a very fine instrument, as are the Kanstul bugles. Also for clarification, the Getzen price includes a case and mouthpice. The Kanstul price is for the horn only. But you can't go wrong with either brand. |
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Treblehorn Veteran Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2004 Posts: 336 Location: Chicagoland
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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ohiotpt wrote: | Okay, now this can't be a TH thread without a little controversy.
Bugles, have CONICAL bores, like so:
Now how's that for controversy? |
Me Likey! That's a pretty horn right there! _________________ Alan
Whole buncha brass. Big, small, short, long, coiled and straight. Someday I'll be able to play them. |
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dr_trumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 Posts: 2537 Location: Cope, IN
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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ohiotpt wrote: | Okay, now this can't be a TH thread without a little controversy.
So get ready, here goes:
First take a look at some of the bugles discussed in this thread (and a couple of others):
Kanstul Regulation Field Bugle, An Amati 223, A Scoutbugle.com Centennial G Bugle, A Jupiter Brigadier Bugle, and a Getzen Field Trumpet (B-Flat with G Slide).
None of these are actually BUGLES...Look at their shape. They all have cylindrical bores. Which, makes them TRUMPETS. No valves, but still TRUMPETS. Which is why (I understand) Getzen markets theirs as the Getzen Field TRUMPET.
Bugles, have CONICAL bores, like so:
Now how's that for controversy? |
In reality, everything is conical and nothing is cylindrical. _________________ Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music |
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ohiotpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jan 2008 Posts: 990
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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dr_trumpet wrote: |
In reality, everything is conical and nothing is cylindrical. |
They agree:
_________________ -fred
Lots of horns available to try and buy (or just try) in the Florida Treasure Coast area (Especially Kanstul trumpets) - PM if you'd like to stop by. |
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dr_trumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2001 Posts: 2537 Location: Cope, IN
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Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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ohiotpt wrote: | dr_trumpet wrote: |
In reality, everything is conical and nothing is cylindrical. |
They agree:
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Dang, haven't viewed that group in a while! _________________ Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music |
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bwoodard Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2009 Posts: 623 Location: Mich.
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Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 11:41 am Post subject: |
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TrumpetMD wrote: | Getzen wrote: | I can't get to the page on the BAA listing the pricing for some reason. |
Maybe it was down temporarily. Here's the link.
http://www.fieldtrumpet.com/
Getzen wrote: | I am wondering if the $709 price is for the M2003 Elite with the hand hammered bell. I only say this because everything I have ever heard before was that BAA sold the horns for much less than anyone else. |
You're probably correct, that the $700 price is for the M2003E. I own the M2003ES, and am very happy with it. But my understanding is that the less-expensive M2003 is also a very fine instrument, as are the Kanstul bugles. Also for clarification, the Getzen price includes a case and mouthpice. The Kanstul price is for the horn only. But you can't go wrong with either brand. |
That is correct. It is the top dog in silver with the engraving, etc. I just priced it again and it came to $685.00. FTR: the Kanstul comes with a one piece bell like 2003ES. _________________ Veteran comebacker!
Bob
2015 Harrelson Summit 4/10
2014 Getzen 4895 Flugelhorn
2014 Getzen 3850
2010 Callet Sima Bb
2010 Callet Sima C
73 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
48 Conn 80A Victor Cornet |
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nyctrumpeter Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Feb 2008 Posts: 1992 Location: New York City
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Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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dr_trumpet wrote: | ohiotpt wrote: | Okay, now this can't be a TH thread without a little controversy.
So get ready, here goes:
First take a look at some of the bugles discussed in this thread (and a couple of others):
Kanstul Regulation Field Bugle, An Amati 223, A Scoutbugle.com Centennial G Bugle, A Jupiter Brigadier Bugle, and a Getzen Field Trumpet (B-Flat with G Slide).
None of these are actually BUGLES...Look at their shape. They all have cylindrical bores. Which, makes them TRUMPETS. No valves, but still TRUMPETS. Which is why (I understand) Getzen markets theirs as the Getzen Field TRUMPET.
Bugles, have CONICAL bores, like so:
Now how's that for controversy? |
In reality, everything is conical and nothing is cylindrical. |
Does that matter that much? We all what they are and what they are there for. Kanstul markets a coach horn but its not a horn in any way, so what do you call that? Hands down - Kanstul Bugles are the best! |
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garrett901 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2009 Posts: 1248 Location: Vacaville CA
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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:00 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Does that matter that much? We all what they are and what they are there for. Kanstul markets a coach horn but its not a horn in any way, so what do you call that? Hands down - Kanstul Bugles are the best! |
I share that same opinion, and I've played quite a few... _________________ Jeff Garrett
Playing "G" Soprano Bugle, Freelancers Alumni/Mini Corps
NorCal Horn Line Instructor/Musical Arranger
Kanstul G Soprano (Powerbore Bell)
Yamaha YTR-739T
Xtream XZ w/ XXX backbore GREAT MP!!!
http://freelancers-alumni.org |
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ohiotpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jan 2008 Posts: 990
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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:27 am Post subject: |
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garrett901 wrote: | Quote: | Does that matter that much? We all what they are and what they are there for. Kanstul markets a coach horn but its not a horn in any way, so what do you call that? Hands down - Kanstul Bugles are the best! |
I share that same opinion, and I've played quite a few... |
There's some Kanstul Bugles available hot out of the oven:
http://www.scoutbugle.com/GetKan.htm _________________ -fred
Lots of horns available to try and buy (or just try) in the Florida Treasure Coast area (Especially Kanstul trumpets) - PM if you'd like to stop by. |
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garrett901 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2009 Posts: 1248 Location: Vacaville CA
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Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:44 am Post subject: |
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Thanks... I already have a few. My Avatar shows me playing my Kanstul Custom Class, three valve, "G" Soprano Bugle. It's a Hybrid of a standard "G" Bugle with a "Power Bore" bell. I get the best of both worlds. It's deep, dark and fat in the lower to upper middle registers and really ZINGS in the upper. Intonation is absolutely superb ! The most I ever have to move the tuning slide is about 1/16 to 1/8 inch at the most. The Artisans / Craftsmen at Kanstul really took care of me when I brought the horn in for repair. Great bunch of folks and Zig is AWESOME ! That mid 1980's horn looks and sounds factory new !!!
I LOVE THAT HORN !!! _________________ Jeff Garrett
Playing "G" Soprano Bugle, Freelancers Alumni/Mini Corps
NorCal Horn Line Instructor/Musical Arranger
Kanstul G Soprano (Powerbore Bell)
Yamaha YTR-739T
Xtream XZ w/ XXX backbore GREAT MP!!!
http://freelancers-alumni.org |
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etc-etc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6210
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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Dale Proctor wrote: | Dale Proctor wrote: | I have a Kanstul Bb field trumpet, ... |
I know the difference. |
Dale,
Are you arguing with your own post? |
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mrsemman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 808 Location: West Brookfield, MA
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:53 am Post subject: |
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While I have a Kanstul G Bugle, which I use for playing taps as part of military honors, I wonder why the need to change key of the bugle? The only reason I could see would be as part of an echo taps.
I have repaired and played Bb bugles, and did not like the quality of sound, that I have with the G bugle.
What other reasons would one have to change the key? _________________ Flip Oakes Wild Thing
Flip Oakes C Trumpet
Zeus Guarnerius Trumpet
Zeus Guarnerius Flugelhorn
Kanstul G Bugle
Jin Boa Bass Trumpet |
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garrett901 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2009 Posts: 1248 Location: Vacaville CA
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | What other reasons would one have to change the key? |
Two reasons; First, tradition
Second; Bugles in the key of "G" have a wider sound band (more overtones) thus project way better outside. Bb Bugles were traditionally used during ceremonies where folks were close by. "G" bugles were used on the battlefield, where the Bugle signal needed to be herd!
Modern day equation: Drum and Bugle Corps today have switched mainly to Bb horns. Up close they sound absolutely beautiful ! Unfortunately, the sound does not carry to the audience in the stands thus they sound anemic at a distance. The activity's answer to this was to allow synthesizer with amplification to make up for the lower overtones lost by using the Bb horns.
A few Senior and Alumni Corps (mine included) are sticking with the "G" horns. hearing the difference back to back is an eye opener for most. Our 35 member "G" horn line can put out the same "sound" as a 55 to 60 horn line playing Bb's !
DCI (Drum Corps International) essentially made the switch from "G" to Bb under pressure from individuals who thought (incorrectly) that the "G" horns were inferior and actually harmed players playing them. Also There was a concern about money. It's easier to sell Bb horns second hand. more of a market.
I perfer the deep sound of the "G" Bugles.
As one of my friends say; There's no Bb in BuGle ! _________________ Jeff Garrett
Playing "G" Soprano Bugle, Freelancers Alumni/Mini Corps
NorCal Horn Line Instructor/Musical Arranger
Kanstul G Soprano (Powerbore Bell)
Yamaha YTR-739T
Xtream XZ w/ XXX backbore GREAT MP!!!
http://freelancers-alumni.org |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8348 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:37 am Post subject: |
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garrett901 wrote: | The activity's answer to this was to allow synthesizer with amplification to make up for the lower overtones lost by using the Bb horns. |
That's like when a football team pipes in extra crowd noise via the some amps since they're own crowd isn't loud enough.
Pathetic. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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