Main tuning slide brace

[davidkoch]

I am wondering what effect the brace on the main tuning slide has, My old horn didn't have one, with it's reverse leadpipe setup (much like the Schilkes, and the 8310Z) but my current Bb (8335RGS) has a different reverse leadpipe setup.

Would response increase if I had the brace removed?
Would there be any negative effects?
Would I be brighter or darker?
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Hi, my name is David and I'm a trumpetaholic.

[plp]

Kanstul makes an adjustable brace that can be moved to different points. You may want to consider one of those and experiment with different placements to see what the effect may be.

It will make a difference, but that difference depends on the design characteristics of each trumpet. IMOHO, every model out there is set up straight from the factory with placement for a reason.
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Since all other motives—fame, money, power, even honor—are thrown out the window the moment I pick up that instrument..... I play because I love doing it, even when the results are disappointing. In short, I do it to do it.” Wayne Booth

[shofarguy]

[davidkoch]

Did the removal of the brace with more weight on the horn make a brighter or darker change?

I really think that I like a lightweight Bb, but my current horn is heavy. I like that it slots well, but it slots too well, and I want to open that up.


In all reality, I think my eventual wish would be to get an 8310Z or a Schilke stepped bore horn.
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Hi, my name is David and I'm a trumpetaholic.

[dr_trumpet]

I've got two of the slides from M/K Drawing for my Bach Bb large bore 72 bell trumpet. One has a brace, one does not. The brace brings a little more focus to the sound, less edge and more core. The one without a brace adds a bit of zing, gives the bell a nice edge and ring, a brilliance if you will. I use both for specific instances, and like them both very much. The non-braced model may have a tiny bit better response as well, but with M/K, all his slides are well made, so...
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Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music

[shofarguy]

[Maarten van Weverwijk]

Excellent reply:

[Capt.Kirk]

David If I am understanding you correctly what you want is more feed back and "Zing" and heavy horns do not give as much feedback to your hands and lips as an ultra light weight horn generally. Plus to get the bell to dance you have to ply fff or more!LOL to get the bell to light off and dance! All of this though is mostly stuff we as musicians feel and hear and rarely does any in an audience other then highly trained musicians ever spot these subtle changes in front of the bell. In Hot Rodding their are two old saying "Race what you brung!" and "Build what you got!" so if you have a 305 and not a 350 then you build that 305 up because you have tht already! If you have a 4 cylinder Ford and you want to race well then you race what you have! Makes sense right? Instead of pinning away for something else make what you have more to your liking! I would start with a simple and easily reversible and cheap modification. I would have my local Technician especially if it is lacquered remove the from bell to leadpipe brace. It should be a cheap modification, should not mar the finish at all and if you do not like it you can put it back easily!

You ask what will this do? It will make the trumpet in front of the valve assembly vibrate much more easily so that heavy bell will behave more like a lighter bell! It will dance at lower volume levels and will have some more charcter in the mix. DO not expect people in front o f the bell to hear a difference they may or may not but you will be able to tell a lot from behind. It will loosen up the slotting a lot!!!! I can not emphasize enough how different this horn will feel! I think you find that you like it a lot better this way.

If you decide youlike it you can adjust slotting with a set of Curry heavy Caps for the XENO. When you want to tighten up the slots put the Cury Extra Heavy Caps on the tird or all the valves. You will need to play around with o-rings and shims to find the best set up. When you want it to dance like made and slot a bit looser you put the OEM caps back on etc......

Most Tech's can do this while you wait in the shop it is a fast process to remove the one brace. YOU can try it right away in this shop and if you do not like it have him put it back on! Personaly I think this is a great first step to deciding if you want a lighter horn or a tuning bell set up etc......I also think it makes a great first modification because it does not damage the horn or change it in such a way that it can not be put back to 100% stock in less then 5 minutes time! SO it is easy to sell if you decide to sell it later on! Plus it always produces results and you will either like it or not but their is nothing "maybe" about it!
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The only easy day was yesterday!

[jbrass16]

What do you guys mean when you say "slotting"? I have the same horn as David, so I'm curious about what he's experiencing with it.
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Bb: YTR8335RGS
MP: Marcinkiewicz E12.4 Ingram

[davidkoch]

The horn locks into notes really, really well for me. I like that, but I also like to be able to bend into notes, and lip stuff around to find the center of the pitch.
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Hi, my name is David and I'm a trumpetaholic.

[jbrass16]

I see. And given the reversed leadpipe, removing the single brace would help in creating some of this flexibility around the note?
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Bb: YTR8335RGS
MP: Marcinkiewicz E12.4 Ingram

[Capt.Kirk]

Slotting means it wants to lock into each note not wounder around between notes in 1/4 tones and such! Have you ever tried hitting a double CC or the A up int hat area and you seemed to slide forward and backards not quite hitting the note you wanted and you had to kind of sneak up on it and slide onto the pitch center???? Well if a horn is lose it wants to slide and bend thenotes easily but if it is tight with it's sloting it is almost automatic that if you do your part it will natural "slot" on the pitch center easily!
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The only easy day was yesterday!

[jbrass16]

If the horn slots well, wouldn't you want to keep that security? How big of a difference does losing the brace create? I mean I'm sure people wouldn't chose to take it off if it made it really hard to keep the notes in tune, right?
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Bb: YTR8335RGS
MP: Marcinkiewicz E12.4 Ingram

[veery715]

Another way to think of slots is that if you try to bend pitches up and down, a horn with tight slotting will want to jump to the next lower or higher partial earlier (fewer cents) in the bend. A looser slotting horn will let you bend those pitches further before the jump to the next higher or lower partial.

Security is lost when slotting is looser. For classical performers this is a big deal, but for jazz performers security is often less important than being able to move the pitch up or down.
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veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out.

[jbrass16]

[davidkoch]

I can bend a pitch down really well, but on a tight slotting horn like the RGS, I can't really bend a pitch up.

Oh well, I should stop complaining, and just practice it more and make it work for me!
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Hi, my name is David and I'm a trumpetaholic.

[jbrass16]

I just have one more question. The stock horn has a brace for a reason, it's the way they designed the horn. Putting valve caps on and other things like that are different than removing an integral piece of the horn. Isn't possible to like mess up the horn by taking away something that was put there for a reason?
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Bb: YTR8335RGS
MP: Marcinkiewicz E12.4 Ingram

[dr_trumpet]