Getting that symphonic tone

drunkiq · Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 7:25 am Post subject:

acording to the Donald S. Reinhardt forum it is the only one of the type III setups that have the natural resonant sound....

Type IIIs: Lower teeth receded beneath uppers in their natural positions and playing positions. All downstream.

straigt type III: "Jelly roll type". Low horn angle. Mouthpiece a trifle lower than IIIA and IIIB. More upper lip than lower in the mouthpiece. Looks like a half and half placement from outside the mouthpiece. A lot of orchestral players are type IIIs...resonant sound. Pivot Classification I or II. Downstream

I have not been typed yet, but when i am feeling better i will ask somone to do it for me... my brother has that resonant sound on every note he plays!!! it is crazy! - if i concentrate i can get a a few ones in but not every one... my brother always said that if you played perfecly in pitch on every note then it happens naturally! and he bought me a good tuner a long time ago to keep woking on it... not sure if it helps, but hell i have never meet a player that could do what he can and i will head back to the wood shed so more.

i moved the post talking about all the different types and setup to the top of the reinhardt forum so yo may want to check it out and see all the different mpc/lips settings..

most of those screamers are classified as a type 4 setup (faddis) - there a downfalls to all setups - range and such but they seem to have solutions with their pivot system for everthing.. as soon as i get off my back from this last back sugeory (6 weeks from now) i am proably going to start the read the Reinhardt books, lean about all the setups, figure out which one i am and what do what he suggest to improve what i already have - those guy on the fourm have been very kind go me and have wokred with me via email but beware, they will not talk about pricipals that do not have to do with their system as theirs at first seems kinda out there but after reading some of it, it really makes a ton of sense.... beside how many other methods have catorgized each and every lip setp, mpc setup, the problem with each and how to work through each one... everyone else (besides causo) tells yo to start all over with a totally different setup and i think it is kinda crazy but seems to work for many others..

just me 2 cents,

marc

Emb_Enh · Veteran Member Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Posts: 455

This is what happens if you....

1. Use warm air from your stomach, rather than cold air from your lungs.

....means that you try to use a bigger breath to support the lip vibrations better, whilst using a more "o" shape aperture [more pucker than spread lips] which gives you a fuller sound as opposed to the oval shape aperture which make the sound more edgy or bright.

2. Drop your jaw.

...makes the aperture more round than oval ...as above..
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FlugelFlyer · Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 5:54 pm Post subject:

My experience: I personally hate people who tell people to play with "'that' symphonic sound". I have to ask those people, what exactly is "that" symphonic sound, keyword "that". Is "that" symphonic sound what Charlie Schlueter sounds like, what Adolph Herseth sounds like, what Maurice Andre sounds like, etc. I'm more of a jazzer, but when somewhat simple minded teachers talk about "that" jazz sound, I have to ask what "that" sound is that they're describing. There's just too many sounds in jazz to broadly describe "that" sound, and the same applies to classical in my limited experience. The point: going for a broad generalization of a sound is like a golfer aiming "thatway" toward the pin, while on the other hand going for a very exact, particular sound is a golfer going for an exact spot on the green. More important than knowing who you want to sound like, also, is knowing WHAT you want to sound like. To put it dramatically, the who makes you a copycat while the what will give you an origional sound, more or less.

[off the soapbox NOW]
_________________
Trumpet: Bach 180LR, 72 bell
Mouthpiece: Warburton 3XD/KT

FlugelFlyer · Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 5:55 pm Post subject:

My experience: I personally hate people who tell people to play with "'that' symphonic sound". I have to ask those people, what exactly is "that" symphonic sound, keyword "that". Is "that" symphonic sound what Charlie Schlueter sounds like, what Adolph Herseth sounds like, what Maurice Andre sounds like, etc. I'm more of a jazzer, but when somewhat simple minded teachers talk about "that" jazz sound, I have to ask what "that" sound is that they're describing. There's just too many sounds in jazz to broadly describe "that" sound, and the same applies to classical in my limited experience. The point: going for a broad generalization of a sound is like a golfer aiming "thatway" toward the pin, while on the other hand going for a very exact, particular sound is a golfer going for an exact spot on the green. More important than knowing who you want to sound like, also, is knowing WHAT you want to sound like. To put it dramatically, the who makes you a copycat while the what will give you an origional sound, more or less.

[*FlugelFlyer is off the soapbox NOW]
_________________
Trumpet: Bach 180LR, 72 bell
Mouthpiece: Warburton 3XD/KT

Ricetrpt · Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 6:15 pm Post subject:

While I agree that one must find his or her own sound, it must be said that the orchestral sound is becoming homogenized. Forty years ago, Herseth, Adelstein, Vacchiano, Johnson, and Ghitalla all played completely different equipment, played under totally different conductors (i.e. the Germans in Chicago, the French in Boston), and did not have the availability or recordings that one does today. Now, Mike Sax, Phil Smith, Dave Bilger, ( Schlueter doesn't count), and (insert principal trumpet player of a major symphony here), all play very similar equipment, and all tend to play in a somewhat "hersethesque" style. That is the style that is winning jobs right now. If you went in to an audition and played like Roger Voison did in the sixties, you wouldn't win the job, but if you played like Herseth did in the sixties, you'd have a good chance.

I am not saying that every trumpet player should sound the same, nor am I saying that all the guys playing now sound the same, but that the style of playing, and the tone concept present in most orchestras is becoming very similar, due to the similarities in equipment, the fact that these players rarely see the same conductor two weeks in a row, and the availability of recordings. So, I don't think it is wrong to say the "symphonic sound", as that is becoming more and more accurate.

TopGun · Veteran Member Joined: 17 Mar 2003 Posts: 456

I has already been stated several times but I will say it again. Listening is most important. You need to have the symphonic sound in your head to get it out of your trumpet.

TopGun

Clarion Wind · Veteran Member Joined: 23 Jun 2003 Posts: 141

Actually, I would say sounding not like Herseth is more the trend that is winning auditions. Herseth played aggressively and musically, and wasn't worried if he missed a note now and again in live performance. Nowdays there is a neurotic need to play only in a manner in which you won't miss a note, which is much more musically conservative. Blah! Give me Herseth any day.

MrClean · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2003 7:56 pm Post subject:

Goodbye.