I think I'm in for a change... advice?

[usernamehere]

I've been playing a Bach 3C, (megatone starting about 9 months) ago, and thought it was working for me....

Just a few weeks ago, I was just messing around, reading through one of the characteristic studies in the Arban's book using a bach 1C, and was really quite satisfied.

In the last few days, I've been more formally experimenting with larger rim sizes. I definitely enjoy the freer, smoother feel, with a slight decrease in range and endurance so far....

I have also tried a 1.5C, but It doesn't seem to provide nearly the improvement the 1 does. I would still like to try a 1.25C....


I'm greatly intrigued by Monette mouthpieces, having heard FAR more good reviews than bad. My question is this though:


For a high school player (1st chair in the Concert Band), would using a Monette mouthpiece just be overkill? I definitely want to be using the best, most efficient equipment, but I'm not sure if the true quality of Monette equipment would be beyond my own limitations.


And if that IS NOT a ridiculous idea, input on sizes? It appears as though the B2 is about equivalent to the 1.25C, and I hear it tends to the deep side.



Thanks much for the help!
~Benjamin Heintz

[trumpetmagic]

You will see that Bach 1.25C and 1.5C are not an exactly-scaled-down version of Bach 1C. This is clear when you see Kanstul mouthpiece comparator. The feel and performance of each MP is different.

Unless you test drive those mouthpieces including Monette, you would not know which one is best for you. Test driving Monette is expensive unless you can borrow or buy bargain used Monette MPs.

If I were you, I would stick with Bach 1C for now. I would consider a Monette B1 series, once I outgrow Bach 1C when my range and endurance become normal as before.

Just a thought.

Ken

[Composing Trumpet]

As far as bach mouthpieces go, I find the 1 1/4 C to have the best sound with minimal compromisies in range and endurance. If you want bigger I would skip the 1C and go for the 1B, but that's just me! As far as monettes go both the 1 and 2 series would be excellent choices. Check the monette website to see if there is a dealer near you that sell their mouthpieces. There will probably be a mouthpiece close to your size there. Just try it out and see if you like the feel of a monette. You can find your ideal mouthpiece after seeing if the monettes work for you at all. My personal favorites of the larger sizes are the B2D and the B1-1. Hope this helps!

Mike
_________________
Although music can be rationalized in scientific, academic, and economic terms, never lose sight of the fact that it is mankinds only truly abstract art form.

[Cozy]

Username,
All the mpc's you mention are excellent for wonderful sound. You seem to have done your homework. Do these "seat" you? Don't know from this kybd, but they are worthy of study...Your 3C is a good mpc. too.
I played a 1 1/2C for years until it disappeared on a cruise ship. Thus, Mpc Safari I began. It was an excellent mpc.
Tptmagic's comment re the hi cost of Monette is something to consider. The B2 and that ballpark are fine mpc's, but a Bach experiment is cheaper. Best of luck.

Cozy
http://www.cozychops.com

[ This Message was edited by: Cozy on 2002-02-22 14:42 ]

[kenny dorham is an animal]

i would reccomend either the 1/4c or a monette b1-1 for concert band work. Now the B1-1 is a cave, but if you have the chops you can still get into the upper register, but i think of the b1-1 as an ideal symphonic mpc.
Later
_________________
Im out for dead presidents to represent me-Nas

DRES

[richj50]

I would definitely give the Monette mouthpieces a try. Not all of the dealers will force you to buy if you don't like it when you receive it, so check around.

If you like the Bach 1C, I'd start with a Monette B1-5 or a B1-5M rather than a B1-1. Those are the closest sizes to the 1C. I personally play a B1-1, but it has an extremely round rim that doesn't work for many players. It also requires a fairly different playing style than a non-Monette mouthpiece. The 1-5 series mouthpieces and especially their rims are much more middle of the road and likely to work for you (in my opinion).

I wouldn't say that spending $200 on a mouthpiece is excessive for anyone playing a trumpet that cost more than $200. The mouthpiece makes at least as much difference as the horn. It always puzzles me that so many people object to the price of Monette mouthpieces on general principle, yet think nothing of dropping $1000 on a horn.

The Monette mouthpieces don't work for everyone, but if they do work for you they are worth the price. Although I play a B1-1 with endurance and range adequate for me, I would have a lot of difficulty playing a fairly unmodified Bach 1C even though it's a significantly smaller mouthpiece. I'd also sound a lot worse.

Good luck and report back when you make a decision!

Rich

[pedaltonekid]

I would recommend trying a schilke 17D4 and a 17D4D. The rim size is approximately equal to a Bach 1.25, but is more comfortable. The cup volume is much bigger than even a bach 1C and will give you a much more richer and fuller tone with greater control over dynamics. They both have a 26 throat.
_________________
Best Regards, Play Well!!

[jgadvert]

I find it fascinating when someone talks of range and endurance with a 1 or 1 1/2C
Bach mpc.

I fall apart in two songs with those...and I use a good embourchure method!

[pfrank]

Looking at the comparitor, I was interested to see that the Shilke 15B, what I was playing on, is almost exactly the same as the Bach 3C. To the eye, that is.
My mouthpiece safari has ended settling on Shilke 14C2. The more rounded rim was what I needed, and the tone is comparable to my old (ancient) Claud Gordon 3. I'm not even Thinking about Other mouthpieces any more. A Committment Has Been Made. Amen.
So what am I doing here?
_________________
"Truth is not in the heights but at the bottom of all things."
Paul Twitchell

[usernamehere]

First of all, thanks a lot for the input!


I experimented more with the 1C and used it during a few orchestra and concert band rehearsals, and even at a basketball game. I noticed a little more effort was required in all of those cases. Yesterday, I was practicing for quite a while, and starting to get a little tired, and then it just became obvious that the 1C is indeed too much. I used the 3C for the rest of that session and then at a lesson later, and it takes a bit less effort, but still sounds a bit... stuffy maybe - hard to find a word there, it just almost FEELS small. I tried a 3B today and was much more satisfied than with the 1C. Obviously, the variable is different in either case.

So far through my experimentation, I have found the advantages/disadvantages of wider rims. (and i'm not sure if the 1C also has a bit more bite to the rim than the 3C - i guess i could just check the comparator)

I'm still intrigued by Monettes and would like to try one. I asked my instructor the same question I asked here and his response was basically "go for it!".

I'll certainly do more of the inexpensive experimenting with the Bachs, but thinking ahead:

If I'd like to stay somewhat close to the 3, maybe only slightly bigger (and I know Dave Monette suggests using a bigger rim diamter than you're used to) with a cup depth somewhere near the B... would the B4 be the right idea?

And then... how about http://www.dillonmusic.com?
I notice their policy allows something like 1 week of evaluation of mouthpieces allowing you to return them blemish free for a $2 something restocking + sterilization fee...

Any MORE input?

Thanks again!

~Benjamin Heintz

[pfrank]

Dave Douglas plays a Bach 3B, so it Is of proven value.
For me, the main problem with Bach is the #28 bore which is too small. Shilke uses a standard #27 and just that small difference seems to be much better. Curry uses the 27 too, and next I'll be trying the Curry 1.5DE which is described as having a wider 2nd cup, which I think is why I like the Shilke 14C2, it seems to have that. I may be wrong on that, but it seemes so. My flugel and cornet are smal and medium bore horns, tighter than my 464 bore trumpet, so for them I use really large bore mps, the Warburton 2FLX and the Denis Wick 2B. The key in all this is BALANCE.
_________________
"Truth is not in the heights but at the bottom of all things."
Paul Twitchell

[usernamehere]

Wow! I saw that e-mail address at http://www.monette.net a few days ago, and thought it couldn't hurt to ask advice from the source. I wrote an e-mail on saturday, and got a response today from Tom Raney, director of operations at Monette.

I'm amazed by how kind and helpful he was.

He suggested a B4. The B-2 was mentioned, but he said "but to keep yourself flexible in a variety of applications from jazz to band to orchestra, the B-4 may be the best bet."

I think I'll delay further experimentation for a little while, as auditions for the 2002-2003 MMEA All-State bands and orchestra winds are just next week!



Sort of on a sidenote (and I doubt many really care!), I used the 3B in a performance setting today, at the Region band contest, at which our Concert Band received two perfect scores and one 38 (out of forty) for a Superior rating - We played David Gillingham's "Heroes, Lost and Fallen". I have a REALLY BRIEF solo in there - a fragment of taps, and that has always for some reason been a trouble spot in the context of the piece (a little more experimentation last night led be to believe it is due to the fact that the straight mute influences my intonation even more than I had thought, which was solved ever so simply by a little bit of the first valve slide) So... I didn't screw it up, which was a nice feeling, and I'd say performed that piece more musically than in any other rehearsal or performance.

There.

Thanks again for the help everybody!

~Benjamin Heintz

[Paul.Trumpet]

Yup, we do care and take note.

Glad that it works.