Callet vs. Lawler

[trumpetjunkie]

Anyone who has played or plays one of these horns could you please give me the pros and cons of the horn(s)? Thanks!
_________________
Your belief has no bearing on reality.

[nowherenearadoublec]

I have a Lawler STS with a 21H and a 27 bell and both the Callet Jazz and Superchops.
Both are very well made and play a treat! It only comes down to the sound in your head and for me the Jazz wins. The Jazz is probably the hardest to get used to tho, you will get an instant result with the Lawler. Hope that made sense!
With the 21h bell the Lawler slots like no other horn but the Callet sound does it for me.
Alan

PS the Jazz is critical on mouthpiece choice, in my opinion
Alan

[trumpetjunkie]

Thanks! I'm lookin at the jazz...wondering if anyone can convince me of the lawler... Is the jazz hard to play in a real soft serene setting being that it's a big bore? Thanks!

[hose]

trumpetjunkie,

I have never played a Callet. I hear the people who play them like them. I CAN speak for the Lawler trumpets. My new TL6 does all the things that a great trumpet should do. Intonation, projection, even blow, valve action, flexible sound and subperb craftmanship,...the TL6 can blow the doors off a large room or sound warm and delicate in a small group. You can express yourself with this horn to your maximum. And Roy Lawler will work with you so that you get exactly what you want. I urge you to try one before you make a decision. Otherwise you will always wonder.

[jgadvert]

Hey NowherenearadoubleC:

Why do you say the Jazz takes the longest to get used to? In what way?

[trumpetjunkie]

How does the jazz work in a legit situation?

[Mikester]

I have had 3 2002 Lawlers (2-26B's and 1-21B) and 3 Callets (1998 0.460" Superchops, 1999 0.464" SC w/ 3rd slide conversion, and 2002 Jazz).

Currently, I only have the Jazz (from the list above). I actually performed 3 styles of music for an audience on both a WT and the Jazz. They selected this Jazz. Its a close race from the players perspective.

My favorite attribute of the Lawlers is the feel of the horn in the grip. You can feel the bell resonate. Of course, they are well made and have very good intonation. If I were a jazz player, I would play the Lawler 26-5" bell. By the way, the 21B is quite nimble.

Kyle has posted about more people selecting their horn from an audience perspective. Something to the effect: if this were done, more Callets would be chosen. I have had good players play my Jazz, and noticed how big and brilliant their tone became. The sound is my favorite characteristic of the Jazz. Also, Callets are the most solid feeling horns I have played. I can not overblow them (not a goal, just an observation). I have been fortunate enough to know Lee Adams. He hand picked me this Jazz. I use it in most playing situations.

For small rooms, I may need a little less horn carrying power. The Lawler 21B fits this bill. Currently, using a Yamaha Z. After talking with Lee, he is sending me a Stratosphere! I just can not wait. If I can get the same tone qualities with an even more nimble horn, I may be able to have only one horn or one brand (possibly keep both Jazz and Strat.).

Hope this helps. Open to answering questions by e-mail.




_________________
Mike

Listen to your listeners.

http://www.bigbandofpraise.com

[ This Message was edited by: Mikester on 2003-08-27 21:38 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Mikester on 2003-08-27 21:42 ]

[jgadvert]

Mikestar:

I think you have said it all about the Jazz. You tested the Jazz against another horn in front of an audience and then solicited opinions? How Cool!
Nothing like at an attempt to give a horn a true comprehensive test.
Could you elaborate? Was it at a gig of some type?

[trumpetjunkie]

Thanks!

So the main con with the jazz is maybe too much power? Can anyone comment on the lawler? THanks
_________________
Your belief has no bearing on reality.

[BADBOY-DON]

Just a note about my Callet Jazz horns...

Two much power with the Callet?...uhhhh???
Try to remember why Jerry designed this horn in the first place.

For example: These horns are very conservative....in bore. They start out at a mere .353 at the lead pipe..but end up a full 470 at the 3rd valve.
Also remember that most folks who design and build horns...insist on adaquate bracing TO PREVENT ANY BELL VIBRATION FEEDBACK to the horn and in fact... Notice in photos of Jerry and Lawler and other manufacturers of quality horns...you will see extra beefy bracing where the bell meets the clusters and valve slides and leadpipes.
The Callet has the thickest beeeeeefiest receiver at the mp. that most other horns...as well as a thick walled leadpipe....in order to keep the extra vibrations and nutty-nodel-noodle noise well dampend. Also one other poster on this thread mentioned that Callet horns seem to do better with speciality mouthpieces. True also about Monette etc. These folks go for the really soft-but dense slugs to form their mps in mfg.
Down side is that these softer blanks...ding and dent easily and loose their plating much quicker.
Jerry has replated my beautiful old Vari-cup #3S 4 times in the last 10 years or so....
Last time I had Dick Akright plate my trusty little Callet #12VFS for my Symphonique C Callet horn. His plating was a super value...at only $20.00. Although Jerry's plater did a thicker and more beautiful replate. However Dick feels that in other to retain the orignal size and thicknesses of the basic designs...It is far better to have a thin' plating that a purty' and shiney over-plated one.
Jerry's hole dia. at the throats on many of his mps cups are very small but utilize a huge and open back-bore which leds to a trumpet that plays with quite a wide range of flexibility.
With that in mind....The Callet horns to this old BBD are sooo easy to play soooooo softly, but really project with power when you push air through them...
I wonder if this is one basic reason why my Callet horns play sooooo beautifully in pitch. I tried reaming out the throat of an old mp...after a week end at Monette's camp.
I was at first really impressed with the sound and results....so much sooo that I thought---
Hey...WAAAAY COOOL!
I grabbed the reamer and REAAAALLY OPENED UP THE THROAT!!

UHHHH-DAAAA?????

I went waaaaaaaaay too far...and turned my new-found wonder piece into a truly dull-out of tune fishing sinker?
Live and some times learn...ahhh, maybe not?

Long story long......Callet horns are wonderful, but in truth the Kanstul valve cluster threads are really sometimes nasty to re-insert after re-oiling. Also the valve guides on the Callet...are not in the same location on all three valves...but in turn the valves were pretty tight at first, until I moved away from my life-long love with Al Cass Oil and went with Viper Oil or the new Yamaha Premium valve oil...that Malone has endorsed....(Could this be Viper Oil re-named? as both Malone and his bud Mike Vax use that oil as a laxative on a daily basis n' all that jazz.

BOTTOM LINE!
Try and Buy what YOU LOVE AND LIKE! AAAAH WHAT THE HECKY-DARN. SELL THE FAMILY JEWELS AND BUY BOTH. nallthatjazz.

[trumpetjunkie]

How come not many people know about Lawler? did they just start out or what? I hear they're more universal than the callets in that they cam handle most styles well... whereas callets are more of a powerful lead style horn. True?

[histrumpet]

Not really all that true. I think alot of people hear the name "Jazz" and thats it. I don't know all of the details but I understand that there have been sections in orchestras that played Jazz trumpets. It all depends on how you approach the horn. All of that to say that the Jazz can be played in more than a lead capacity in a Jazz or big band. Now if the Jazz does not quite suit your taste there is always the Stratosphere.......

[ This Message was edited by: histrumpet on 2003-08-29 15:24 ]

[Oxfordite]

I for one played trumpet for 6 1/2 years before I ever heard of the Callet or Lawler. I learned of both when I first came to this forum. I believe the Lawler is not as popular perhaps because people often chase after "larger" operations. Callet is designed by Jerome Callet but made by Kanstul (am I right?) and then tweaked by Jerome Callet. Whereas Lawler is handmade exclusively by Roy Lawler. He designs, assembles, etc. entirely by himself. One reason why Selmer/Bach is so popular is because everyone whether musician or not has heard of Selmer.

With all due respect Lawler has become pretty well known. With over 700 (I believe) horns throughout the world. Thats quite a few in the length of time that he has been making them. Take into consideration that most trumpet players wouldn't know who Wedgwood was either. But that doesn't at all take away from a master craftsman. Lawler will stand the test of time... as will Callet and Wedgwood. It's rare that any talent is fully appreciated in their own time. IMO

[nowherenearadoublec]

I agree that the name Jazz and Superchops can put a few people off!
The Lawlers are very good tho. But as i have said before the Callt Jazz sound is awsome.
Alan

[trumpetjunkie]

So between the two there's not really "A winner"? Callet-GREAT sound...powerful...Can be too powerful...Lawler...Good All around horn... Anything else you might add?

[nowherenearadoublec]

All you can do is try BOTH and see what works for you.
Good luck, whatever you buy you will have one of the best horns money can buy!
Alan

[tptguy]

As Mike and others on this thread know, I'm a big Callet fan. I've owned a whole bunch of them, in addition to owning or quite extensively playing virtually ever other pro horn and I've narrowed my collection to just two Bbs - a Callet Jazz and a Callet Stratosphere (My C is also a Callet). Yes, I believe they are the best all purpose horns ever made. Not only do they have superb intonation, feel, and control, etc, they have a sound that other horns don't begin to approach. In my experience, players that stop overanalysing what they "feel" behind the horn and start getting knowledgeable ears out front to really listen end up with Callets. Sometimes I think I'm in the small minority, but I actually believe that it's out front that matters! :>)

Versatility: The Callet Jazz is the exact same horn as the Callet Symphonique other than finger rings and other small cosmetics. It's one of the truly great classical horns ever made and it's use in top symphonies around the world is a testiment. Listen to the Concertgebouw's Mahler 5th. That's Peter Masseurs on a Calley Symphnique. Versatility is certainly not a lack in a Callet!

Superchops vs Jazz: I continue to think that the Jazz is the most versatile horn ever made. It does everything to an outstanding degree. It's great in chamber settings, big band lead, concertband, symphony, and as its name suggests, straight ahead ride. But for even more punch and drive on the top, or added brilliance, search out a Superchops. Though perhaps not quite as versatile, the Superchops may still be my favorite sound by a pinch over the Jazz. Interestingly, in Japan the Superchops has proven to be the #1 Callet choice for classical. So, let your ears and friend's ears be the judge.

Jazz vs Stratosphere: I've used the Jazz countless times in chamber and small combo settings and it has NO problem coming down to whatever level you want. Because it has such excellent projection, etc, it just means that you will work less at lower volumes than on other horns. That's a very good thing. However, I now use my Callet Stratosphere for smaller room situations. The reason is not volume, but agility. The Stratosphere keeps the great sound of the Jazz but in a more nimble version that really makes the vast jazz lines flow. It won't have quite the punch at the top end, but that's the fine balancing act. For those that feel the .470 Jazz may be too much horn for their style or development, check out the .460 Stratosphere. I think it's a stunningly great horn. And, I really look forward to Mike's feedback after his arrives. I expect he'll have another "keeper".

Best regards, Kyle

[pushyred]

I tried a Callet Jazz for over a week and its a beautiful instrument. I love my Lawler with the changable bells and the sound is incredible with either the heavy classical or the light/bright bell. I really like the flexibility and it was a pleasure being able to work with Roy to get a truly custom made instrument.

It really comes down to personal preference. If you prefer the Callet then go for it; they are lovely instruments. You won't be dissappointed with either horn.

[trumpetjunkie]

Thank you for the VERY informative post Kyle!