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dizzy1234 New Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2009 Posts: 6
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 5:09 am Post subject: first valve trigger for an old trumpet |
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Hi,
I have an old trumpet (selmer 1932) that for obvious reasons doesn't have a first valve trigger. I was wondering if anyone knew if it was a) advisable and b) possible to buy a trigger or to get one made for the first valve, and whether anyone had had any experience with this kinda thing.
ta |
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mrsemman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 808 Location: West Brookfield, MA
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 5:13 am Post subject: |
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While not having any experience with that year and model horn, I can safely say that a trigger could be mounted on the horn. _________________ Flip Oakes Wild Thing
Flip Oakes C Trumpet
Zeus Guarnerius Trumpet
Zeus Guarnerius Flugelhorn
Kanstul G Bugle
Jin Boa Bass Trumpet |
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VetPsychWars Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 7196 Location: Greenfield WI
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 5:52 am Post subject: |
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Have you noticed that it needs it? I learned to play on horns without and haven't seen the need for one yet.
If you do, as mentioned, one can be added.
Tom _________________ 1950 Buescher Lightweight 400 Trumpet
1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
GR65M, GR65 Cor #1 |
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dizzy1234 New Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2009 Posts: 6
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 5:56 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the reply
Do you know if it could normally be done without modifying any of the existing parts, i.e. as an new piece of tubing, so that I can still change back to the current setup? And would it be prohibitively expensive?
Incidentally, it's a selmer 1932 Louis Armstrong Special, although I can't seem to find much info on the model. |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12705 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:37 am Post subject: |
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I am not an expert, but if the slide wasn't designed to be moved adding a trigger might require reworking it. |
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trumq Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Posts: 335 Location: san francisco
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:43 am Post subject: |
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LittleRusty wrote: | I am not an expert, but if the slide wasn't designed to be moved adding a trigger might require reworking it. |
Doesn't it have to be shortened a bit? First slides without a trigger or ring are set up as a compromise between the longest and shortest lengths needed to play first valve combos in tune, whereas slides built with triggers/rings are set to the shortest and extended to tune the rest, no? _________________ paul
Henri Selmer 80J
'63 Olds Studio
'55 King Liberty
King altonium
'47 Conn 80A |
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silverhorn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2003 Posts: 683
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:54 am Post subject: Re: first valve trigger for an old trumpet |
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dizzy1234 wrote: | Hi,
I have an old trumpet (selmer 1932) that for obvious reasons doesn't have a first valve trigger. I was wondering if anyone knew if it was a) advisable and b) possible to buy a trigger or to get one made for the first valve, and whether anyone had had any experience with this kinda thing.
ta |
A good repair tech can install one for you. I had Robb Stewart fabricate a first valve trigger from scratch for one of my vintage horns that never came with one, because I wanted it to look a certain way. He could have attached a stock trigger too if I didn't want any particular custom design. All parts can be removed without damaging the horn if I or a future owner wanted to remove it someday. The rod assembly also pops on and off for easy cleaning. Robb even builds antique replica horns for museums so there isn't too much that he can't do.
Last edited by silverhorn on Tue May 31, 2011 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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VetPsychWars Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 7196 Location: Greenfield WI
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:23 am Post subject: |
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dizzy1234 wrote: | Thanks for the reply
Do you know if it could normally be done without modifying any of the existing parts, i.e. as an new piece of tubing, so that I can still change back to the current setup? And would it be prohibitively expensive?
Incidentally, it's a selmer 1932 Louis Armstrong Special, although I can't seem to find much info on the model. |
I sense that you don't necessarily mean a "trigger" but perhaps mean a "hook"?
If you can do with just a thumb hook or ring, you can probably get a slide fabricated with a hook on it. That would replace your existing slide, which you can keep original.
Installing an actual trigger means much more modification to the horn, in the soldering on of the trigger assembly and soldering the fitting onto the slide.
Tom _________________ 1950 Buescher Lightweight 400 Trumpet
1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
GR65M, GR65 Cor #1 |
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davidkoch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 1298 Location: Everywhere
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:52 am Post subject: |
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I did this to an ambassador. It's not the cleanest job in the world, but I owe that to my lack of proper tools to fit the thing and poor soldering skills.
It took me about 10 minutes to work that thing.
_________________ Hi, my name is David and I'm a trumpetaholic. |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9389 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 9:09 am Post subject: Re: first valve trigger for an old trumpet |
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silverhorn wrote: | ...Robb even builds antique horns for museums so there isn't too much that he can't do. |
So, how do you build an antique horn?... _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12705 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 9:27 am Post subject: Re: first valve trigger for an old trumpet |
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Dale Proctor wrote: | silverhorn wrote: | ...Robb even builds antique horns for museums so there isn't too much that he can't do. |
So, how do you build an antique horn?... |
First one needs to build a time machine. |
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mrsemman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 808 Location: West Brookfield, MA
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:24 am Post subject: |
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A trigger can be applied without requiring a new first valve slide. However, if you meant to say that you wanted a first valve slide saddle or ring, then, it might require some work, such as reversing the tubing on the slide and the port to the first valve block. _________________ Flip Oakes Wild Thing
Flip Oakes C Trumpet
Zeus Guarnerius Trumpet
Zeus Guarnerius Flugelhorn
Kanstul G Bugle
Jin Boa Bass Trumpet |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12705 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:31 am Post subject: |
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trumq makes a good point. Normally trumpets that do not have an adjustable first valve slide have the slide designed to give the best compromise between differing length requirements. It is possible that your slide is a little longer than would be required as a compromise. |
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dizzy1234 New Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2009 Posts: 6
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the replies. A couple of things:
I'm not terribly up on the nomenclature of the different parts of the trumpet so forgive me if I get something wrong.
To be clear, I'm absolutely not going to alter any part of the trumpet as I have it now. What I wanted to know about is whether there I could get a new part for it that would slot into where the first valve slide is now.
Someone asked whether it was strictly necessary as it's possible to lip the notes into tune. I'm comfortable enough doing just that, but I was curious what other people think - i.e. do people think it's worth going for a new part.
I've attached some pictures of the first valve slide in position, slightly off, and entirely off if that helps:
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Capt.Kirk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 5792
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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Yes it can be done either way. You will not get the ultimate compromise between too long and too short like on a reversed set up but you will still have more then enough to help......You could like wise trim a 1/4 inch off each outer and inner tube.....Other then that I would lapp the slide with .5 micron diamond paste to make it easier to move quickly if the tubes are still tight and I would imagine they are. _________________ The only easy day was yesterday! |
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nieuwguyski Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2002 Posts: 2358 Location: Santa Cruz County, CA
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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Most things are possible, for a price. You can certainly have a new first-valve slide with a saddle on an extension fabricated. It may be quite expensive, unless a medium-bore valve crook, with the right radius, can be found.
Another option would be to put a call out for a first slide from a junker Selmer Grand Prix 19B, which could then be modified. _________________ J. Notso Nieuwguyski |
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VetPsychWars Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 7196 Location: Greenfield WI
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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If you can play in tune now, I wouldn't personally pay a couple hundred dollars for a replacement slide with a saddle.
But, like I said, I grew up playing that way so I never did see what the big deal was for horns designed this way.
Tom _________________ 1950 Buescher Lightweight 400 Trumpet
1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
GR65M, GR65 Cor #1 |
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silverhorn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jan 2003 Posts: 683
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Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: first valve trigger for an old trumpet |
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LittleRusty wrote: | Dale Proctor wrote: | silverhorn wrote: | ...Robb even builds antique horns for museums so there isn't too much that he can't do. |
So, how do you build an antique horn?... |
First one needs to build a time machine. |
haha. good one! i meant replica but forgot to put that in there. i'll go back and edit my post now |
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