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jdalager New Member
Joined: 03 Jun 2011 Posts: 5 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:54 pm Post subject: upper register multiple tonguing |
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Any advice to double and triple tonguing in the upper register? Independently, I can do either one fine. But together, that's a huge challenge. |
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James B. Quick Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Feb 2003 Posts: 2067 Location: La Crosse, WI
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Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder if it is possible. I use tongue arch to speed the air flow for my upper register, and that pretty much ties up my tongue.
jbq |
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jiarby Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2011 Posts: 1188
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Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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What range are you calling high? Al Hirt used to do Green Hornet up to High C's & D's/ |
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abontrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009 Posts: 1831
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Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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James B. Quick wrote: | I wonder if it is possible. I use tongue arch to speed the air flow for my upper register, and that pretty much ties up my tongue.
jbq |
That's why purposefully engaging the tongue is a no-no.
To tongue high in the upper register you must first be able to play in the upper register with a beautiful sound. You must also be able to efficiently double or triple tongue in comfortable registers and be able to efficiently single tongue in the upper register...all with a beautiful sound
After that is achieved, then just add multiple tongue. Don't be afraid...don't back off the air. Deep low breath and imagine it coming out. Don't settle for anything less than ideal. |
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Al Innella Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Jul 2008 Posts: 759 Location: Levittown NY
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Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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I use an anchor tongue in all registers.This for me, makes it easier to double and triple tongue in all registers.I can multiple tongue my entire range without making any adjustments. |
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EdMann Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 2484 Location: The Big Valley
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Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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James B. Quick wrote: | I wonder if it is possible. I use tongue arch to speed the air flow for my upper register, and that pretty much ties up my tongue.
jbq |
This is something I've been working on lately, and frankly, the tongue level seems to free up rather than tie up if I'm playing properly. Of course, there are more than a few ways to play properly, so you may want to consult a good friend or teacher. What I think I can say with confidence is that your words indicate a "can't do" visual when perhaps a more open jaw or more relaxed tongue would totally do the trick for you. Take it for what it's worth, from a hack who struggles with stuff like this, but in the end, I seem to find solutions.
ed |
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AJCarter Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2007 Posts: 1280 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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How does one double and triple tongue whilst anchor tonguing? That's mind boggling.
It's possible to tongue in upper register. air speed and smaller oral cavity doesnt necessarily mean that tongue is "engaged". But I agree with the rest of what Abontrumpet says. Get comfy tonguing, get comfy playing up there with an open and relaxed sound. _________________ (List horns here) |
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acritzer Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Posts: 830 Location: Cincinnati, OH
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Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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AJCarter wrote: | How does one double and triple tongue whilst anchor tonguing? That's mind boggling.
It's possible to tongue in upper register. air speed and smaller oral cavity doesnt necessarily mean that tongue is "engaged". But I agree with the rest of what Abontrumpet says. Get comfy tonguing, get comfy playing up there with an open and relaxed sound. |
You have to single tongue using what's called KTM, or K Tongue Modified. Instead of using the tip of your tongue, you use the area just behind the tip, while the tip stays in contact with the lower teeth.
I'm not sure if Claude Gordon is the only method to teach this, but it's a very big part of the method.
I'm a few weeks into it now and as strange as it feels at first, it quickly gets much, much easier. I'm up to 16ths around 97 bpm now. |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9834 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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"Anchor Tonguing" is a misnomer. The tongue should never be "anchored". The tip should rest lightly just behind the bottom front teeth. The tongue needs to stay free and relaxed. At times the tip will rise up higher, but never higher than the area between the bottom and top front teeth.
When tonguing properly in the KTM way as Clarke taught Gordon and he taught his students (including me), it is very easy to multiple tongue right to the top of one's register.
Before learning to use the KTM method, I could only multiple tongue cleanly to around the top of the staff. After mastering KTM I can now double and triple tongue to around a G above High C. |
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