Ring Around Top Lip

trjeam · Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2002 4:05 pm Post subject:

This is something that is starting to worry me.

On my upper lip everytime that I am done playing trumpet I always get this ring from the mouthpiece on my upper lip. It looks like as if it gets swollen. I only get it when I play for a huge ammount of time.

I never did pay much attention to it. But know I am starting to think that I have some sort of problem or bad habbit. I know for a fact that I get the ring because of the mouthpiece preasure. The ring is really noticable and big and I am starting to think that I am using too much preasure and maybe if I could fix this problem that maybe it would benefit my over all playing.

Anyone have any tips for me? How to not make it get so big. How to use less preasure?

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George Ayala

http://www.trumpeter.cjb.net

[ This Message was edited by: trjeam on 2002-03-16 19:11 ]

SHS_Trumpet · Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2002 4:07 pm Post subject:

I don't know but when I saw dac after his last concert here he had a huge ring on his lip. I think it just comes with playing trumpet I know I get a ring.
_________________
Andrew Fowler
MYNWA
"90% of trumpet music is below high C"

Larry Smithee · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 4399

Ring around the lip? This is easily avoidable...switch to flute (just kidding). Don't worry about it. Your in good company.
Larry Smithee

Martin · Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2002 6:08 am Post subject:

Play on! I always get a ring, no matter how soft or low I play (and I use very little pressure). I used to worry about it until I saw Lew Soloff in concert. He also has a handsome ring, especially when playing lead.
Be careful with the swelling, though. This is a sign that you are overdoing it.
_________________
All the best

Martin
_____________________________________________________________________
"I have found that it is enough when a single note is beautifully played." - Arvo Pärt

trumpetnerd7 · Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2002 10:20 pm Post subject:

Dont worry about it at all. When i get a ring it sometimes lasts up to 2 hours. However, a few weeks ago i was playing too much, and i started to get some scabs or scarring in the shape of my ring, so be careful not to overplay.

Emb_Enh · Veteran Member Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Posts: 455

Your pressing too hard and stopping the top lip vibrating at it's maximum efficiency.

We ALL need to cut down on mpc. pressure.

http://www.R-o-d-d-y-T-r-u-m-p-e-t.cC/pressure.html

Roddy o-iii<O
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"E M B O U C H U R E___E N H A N C E M E N T"
BOOK 1 also... BOOK 2 + demo CD

[Self Analysis and Diagnostic Trumpet Method]

Martin · Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2002 3:24 am Post subject:

I agreee with Roddy about cutting down on mouthpiece pressure, but the funny thing is - I even get a ring when I do the "no-pressure" thing (placing the trumpet on a smooth surface hardcover book, holding the book in front of me and playing without touching the trumpet). I can play up to a nice, resonant high c that way with minimal pressure (or else the horn would fall off the book) and still get a ring. Mine does not last longer than two or three minutes after playing, though.
_________________
All the best

Martin
_____________________________________________________________________
"I have found that it is enough when a single note is beautifully played." - Arvo Pärt

comebackkid · Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2002 8:56 am Post subject:

I agree with Roddy that we should all take notice of how much pressure we are using. An efficient set-up is one that employs only as much pressure as is absolutely necesary. Anything else will negatively affect endurance,
range, and tone quality.

I make similar observations as Martin, however, when it comes to having a mark on the lips. I think that because we are all so different (tissue density, body fat percentage, fairness of skin...), many of us will have a mark even when using minimal pressure.

So...as Roddy (A great contributor to this forum!) says, if you have a mark on the lips, first ask yourself if you are using too much pressure. If you are confident that you are not, GROW A MUSTACHE. I hope there arent too many female trumpet players with this problem! He He Ha He!

Emb_Enh · Veteran Member Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Posts: 455

General redness about the lips is a sign of blood flow [that's okay]...however as I understood it ..it is a clearly defined red ring...[?]

Roddy o-iii<O
_________________
Regards, Roddy o-iii RoddyTpt@aol.com

"E M B O U C H U R E___E N H A N C E M E N T"
BOOK 1 also... BOOK 2 + demo CD

[Self Analysis and Diagnostic Trumpet Method]

clarion89 · Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2002 10:41 am Post subject:

I have a red ring on my top lip when finished playing. I know that I have to cut down on mp pressure. However, almost every player I have ever played with always bears "the ring" when done playing. Ever look at Maynard's chops??

Bottom line: less pressure, don't worry about ring - maybe it will go away...
_________________
Matt Wirfel
"don't practice long, practice often" - Don Jacoby
https://www.facebook.com/mgwirfel01

comebackkid · Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2002 12:44 pm Post subject:

Can anyone help with my ring-around-the-collar?
heheheehehaahaaaaaargh!

trjeam · Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2002 12:53 pm Post subject:

pfrank · Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2002 1:18 pm Post subject:

Worry not- it's the "scarification" that comes from being a trumpet player. There is a permanant mark on Many long time players, and blood flow from playing makes it redder. (When I went to the local brass store, I could tell the the clerk helping me was a trumpet guy just by looking at him, so I trusted his mouthpiece ideas more) When you see that your trumpet hero has one, you might want one too. I saw Miles live in 76/77, he quite a mark.
But it's a minor thing compared with others, and it dosn't effect our lives generally: think of baseball catchers' glove hand: gnarled, or football players' wrecked knee joints, or ballet dancers' bound feet, or bass players' left hand calluses, or a cowboys' bowed legs...
We are lucky to be playing an instrument that faces front. Many guitar, violin/cello and flute players have to stop because of carpal tunnel or thoracic outlet nerve problems caused by repetive twisting motion. And then there's drummers...
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Paul Twitchell

pedaltonekid · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1711

Maurice Andre addressed this in an interview. He illustrated that when he played the instrument he acquired the ring, but that do to what he attributed to an exceptional blood supply to the chops, his ring disappeared almost instantly when he removed the mouthpiece. Mine on the other hand is always present, but more so immediately after playing.
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Best Regards, Play Well!!

ChopsMcgraw · Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2002 3:25 pm Post subject:

In regards to your front teeth moving, thats the way my teeth were in high school, played a bit much pressure, I could pop my front teeth back out after a jazz rehearsal...

ChopsMcgraw

evolution · Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2002 3:43 pm Post subject:

Larry Smithee · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 4399

[quote]
On 2002-03-18 18:43, evolution wrote:

_bugleboy · Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2002 5:46 pm Post subject:

Someone said that you are in good company if you have the ring mark on your lip. Very true.

Others are advising to use the least amount of pressure possible. I wonder how this is done. You use pressure to get the notes because you can't get them any other way. You keep applying the pressure until you are able to execute the required note or sequence of notes. Why would anyone apply MORE pressure than is necessary? Once you have reached your musical goal any additional pressure would probably be self defeating anyway. The point is you apply the amount you need. There isn't any need to apply more than that, but anything less will be inadequate and make the notes come up short. You're the only one who knows how much you need and you're the only one who applies it. So advice that suggests you use the least amount of pressure possible is more or less meaningless. You have to use the NECESSARY amount. You don't need or use any more than that, so what you are already doing IS the least amount. Telling you to use the least amount of pressure is essentially telling you to do what you're already doing, and doesn't help you to find a way to use less pressure and still play the music.

Pressure is a natural way of solving a problem. You apply pressure because you can't keep your lips together any other way and in order for them to vibrate they must be together, touching.

Your mission, should you choose to accept it,

is to find ways other than pressure to keep your lips together.

But if you start trying to reduce pressure with your hand, don't expect to keep playing the parts. So, press away!!! But get some chop building exercises into your practice routine to keep those lips together by means OTHER than pressure.

Regards,

CR

_________________
Charles Raymond

[ This Message was edited by: bugleboy on 2002-03-18 20:50 ]

_PhilPicc · Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2002 6:44 pm Post subject:

I think we are missing one important point here. I had a teacher and his thought was what caused the pressure problem was not the amount of pressure to play the high note, but when you went back down you did not release(back off) the pressure. You then ended up with way to much pressure on the lower notes than you needed or normally used.

Not always easy to do. Check it out and see if this is a possible problem. I know about it and I still screw up.

Just my thoughts, FWIW
Phil
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Philip Satterthwaite

We cannot expect you to be with us all the time, but perhaps you could be good enough to keep in touch now and again."
- Sir Thomas Beecham to a musician during a rehearsal