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hvand Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Jun 2006 Posts: 358 Location: Chapel Hill North Carolina
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Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:29 pm Post subject: Taking the Cornet Plunge! |
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About every other year or so, I put on a recital for charity. I like to include Cornet pieces but I've always done them on trumpet ( ). I decided to put an end to this charade and purchase a vintage instrument.
... ok, my wife was gracious enough to let me buy a vintage instrument ...
I bought an Olds Super (LA) cornet from joefab through the TH marketplace. (BTW, he's a great guy). Now, I won't be able to see the horn until Christmas, but I would be interested in people's ideas about mouthpieces. I know that differences in MPC can lead to differences in sound ... but that's where my knowledge stops. I'm not even sure what MPC fits in the thing.
Any suggestions, resources, ideas appreciated (including ideas about care and maintenance).
I'll use it for Boling's Toot Suite this spring - it should be fun.
Hank _________________ Hank van Deventer, Durham Symphony |
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royjohn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2005 Posts: 2272 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
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Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Hank,
I don't know if I'm qualified to advise someone who actually plays for money in a real symphony, but I am something of a cornet geek . . . a "V" cup mpc, maybe with a somewhat enlarged throat, would be the typical mouthpiece of choice for a classic cornet sound . . . something like a Curry DC or VC or BBC, depending on how far in that direction you want to go. The Bach cornet mouthpieces, AFAIK are not so much "V" cups, but some other manufacturers make pieces similar to the Currys. Wick, of course, is the classic British cornet sound. . . . Sparx is great, too . . .
I applaud you for playing a charity recital . . . sounds like great fun! I'll sit back and see what the cornet mavens suggest . . . hey, good luck on the recital!! _________________ royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . . |
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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I'll second the Curry BBC cup. Try a "normal" cornet mouthpiece in the horn, and I bet it wobbles around. Ask the seller, he should know if it has the older, large-shank Olds receiver. Curry has to be able to make those? |
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TWEAK Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2004 Posts: 416 Location: Albany, NY
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Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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Sometimes vintage mpcs on vintage horns match well...I've got an HN White cornet from the 40s and use an HN White cornet mouthpiece with it. It just so happens that they both compliment each other quite well.
Hope that advice was of some sort of help _________________ http://onlinejazzclass.com |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9389 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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The Olds Super cornet plays on the bright side of the cornet spectrum. If you want a good contrast between it and a trumpet, you'll want to go deep on a cornet mouthpiece, something like the Curry BBC series. Speaking of mouthpieces, the L.A. Olds cornets before 1959 or so had an oddball-sized mouthpiece receiver. Modern cornet mouthpieces will be too small to fit correctly, so if you have an older cornet, you'll need a mouthpiece made with the "Olds" shank. _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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RandyTX Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5304 Location: Central Texas
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Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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razeontherock wrote: | I'll second the Curry BBC cup. Try a "normal" cornet mouthpiece in the horn, and I bet it wobbles around. Ask the seller, he should know if it has the older, large-shank Olds receiver. Curry has to be able to make those? |
If you have the serial number on the horn, you can quickly determine if it will need a larger "olds shank" mouthpiece or not.
And Mark Curry can definitely make them, he's made several for me to use with both SR and Recording model cornets form the 40s and 50s. _________________ "Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away." |
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connicalman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2007 Posts: 1668 Location: West Medford, MA
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Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:15 am Post subject: |
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Olds S/N 189,611. I think that's the breakpoint for old/new = large/standard diameter cornet shanks. _________________ kochaavim, csillaagkep, αστερρισμός, konnstelacji, connstellation... ...a.k.a. the 28A!
Other Conns: Victor 5A & 38A, New Wonder & 80A; 'stella 38A; 36A; 'quest 76A... |
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scipioap Veteran Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2012 Posts: 371 Location: Waltham, MA
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Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:56 am Post subject: DW5881-RW2 |
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Recently bought a brand new old stock Denis Wick RW2 (Roger Webster series size 2) cornet piece in original gold plate from Dillon Music for the astounding price of $30. It sounds fantastic. RW's are discontinued and Dillons is trying to clear their old stock of size 2, so silvers are $25, golds are $30. Call Jim McCombs 732-587-6272.
Haven't seen those prices for new quality mpc's since I was a kid. |
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entrancing1 Regular Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2010 Posts: 83 Location: Buffalo, NY
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Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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If it is truly an LA Super ( they used LA stamped tone rings long after the move to Fullerton) it will require a mouthpiece with the large Old's shank. a cost effective option is it have a tech swap out the receiver for a standard cornet receiver. The horn would no longer be "original" but you would have a lot more flexibility in mouthpieces to say nothing of the extra expense and wait time of ordering a custom 'piece every time you want to try a new one.
I've done that to an LA ambassador that I own and have questioned my decision not to do it to a Recording cornet. _________________ Old's (many) Trumpets, and cornets, Yamaha 668 and King Eroica French horns, King Liberty, Conn, 40A 40B, Conn 80A, Buescher 400 cornet and trumpet, model 9 and model 10-22 trumpets, Olds Flugelhorn, Kanstul CCT 920 Picc. |
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qcm Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Apr 2007 Posts: 1281 Location: Massachusetts
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Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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entrancing1 wrote: | If it is truly an LA Super ( they used LA stamped tone rings long after the move to Fullerton) it will require a mouthpiece with the large Old's shank |
....or contact Mark Curry for a cornet mouthpiece.
He can make them with the Olds shank and his turnaround time is excellent.
-Dave _________________ Dave Edwards
Kanstuls, LA Benges and a Selmer picc. |
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hvand Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Jun 2006 Posts: 358 Location: Chapel Hill North Carolina
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Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the suggestions ... I knew the TH would come through.
The serial number is 4646. In fact, the horn is still on the marketplace site. Click here to see it.
I suspect that it will require a modified mouthpiece. I like the idea of talking to Mark Curry. I'm a little nervous about changing the shank though I will keep it in mind.
Thanks, Hank _________________ Hank van Deventer, Durham Symphony |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9389 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:49 am Post subject: |
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Nice horn! Yeah, something that old probably shouldn't be modified with a different receiver. Just get Mark Curry to make you a cornet mouthpiece with the "Olds" shank and enjoy it. Tell him what trumpet mouthpiece(s) you play and what you want to accomplish with the cornet and he will give you some good suggestions. _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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connicalman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2007 Posts: 1668 Location: West Medford, MA
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:35 am Post subject: |
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Sweet Georgia Brown!!
Nice choice.
Enjoy that one.
Let the mouthpiece safari begin.
With the receiver limitation, you'd be well advised to find what works, then get one or maybe a pair of screw-top shanks. Why? Just a hunch, but you'll want to explore the timbre. Ed.: the timbre differences you'll get from different cups.
FWIW, and while you're waiting, the Wick 4FL and the Getzen flugel mpcs have a taper that will do OK in a pinch. _________________ kochaavim, csillaagkep, αστερρισμός, konnstelacji, connstellation... ...a.k.a. the 28A!
Other Conns: Victor 5A & 38A, New Wonder & 80A; 'stella 38A; 36A; 'quest 76A... |
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entrancing1 Regular Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2010 Posts: 83 Location: Buffalo, NY
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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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qcm wrote: | entrancing1 wrote: | If it is truly an LA Super ( they used LA stamped tone rings long after the move to Fullerton) it will require a mouthpiece with the large Old's shank |
....or contact Mark Curry for a cornet mouthpiece.
He can make them with the Olds shank and his turnaround time is excellent.
-Dave |
He has yet to answer an email I sent nearly 4 weeks ago inquiring about a mouthpiece with an Olds shank. I could not comment on his turnaround time. _________________ Old's (many) Trumpets, and cornets, Yamaha 668 and King Eroica French horns, King Liberty, Conn, 40A 40B, Conn 80A, Buescher 400 cornet and trumpet, model 9 and model 10-22 trumpets, Olds Flugelhorn, Kanstul CCT 920 Picc. |
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VetPsychWars Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 7196 Location: Greenfield WI
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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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entrancing1 wrote: | qcm wrote: | entrancing1 wrote: | If it is truly an LA Super ( they used LA stamped tone rings long after the move to Fullerton) it will require a mouthpiece with the large Old's shank |
....or contact Mark Curry for a cornet mouthpiece.
He can make them with the Olds shank and his turnaround time is excellent.
-Dave |
He has yet to answer an email I sent nearly 4 weeks ago inquiring about a mouthpiece with an Olds shank. I could not comment on his turnaround time. |
My experience is that a PM here is somewhat better than email.
Tom _________________ 1950 Buescher Lightweight 400 Trumpet
1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
GR65M, GR65 Cor #1 |
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Geodude Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 May 2006 Posts: 588 Location: Chicago 'burbs
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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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I seem to remember a recent thread where Mr. Curry indicated he would be out of touch for a little while to take care of some family obligations. The search function will show a lot of favorable reviews for both his mouthpieces and his customer service. If you can hold out for a little while, I would suggest you try again after Thanksgiving - I imagine your patience will be rewarded. |
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entrancing1 Regular Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2010 Posts: 83 Location: Buffalo, NY
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:27 am Post subject: |
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Dale Proctor wrote: | Nice horn! Yeah, something that old probably shouldn't be modified with a different receiver. Just get Mark Curry to make you a cornet mouthpiece with the "Olds" shank and enjoy it. |
Agreed! _________________ Old's (many) Trumpets, and cornets, Yamaha 668 and King Eroica French horns, King Liberty, Conn, 40A 40B, Conn 80A, Buescher 400 cornet and trumpet, model 9 and model 10-22 trumpets, Olds Flugelhorn, Kanstul CCT 920 Picc. |
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Accordion Ron Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Dec 2005 Posts: 584 Location: Haverhill, Ma
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:49 am Post subject: |
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I've tried them all. Bach's Curry's Stork's Wick's Boston cookie cutter's. etc etc. Get a Sparx in your size, and you'll love it. Made by GR, They improve sound, and technique. Amazing! |
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ChopsGone Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Posts: 1793
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Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:29 am Post subject: |
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Most custom mouthpiece makers will probably make a mouthpiece with the oversized Olds cornet shank on request. Most of the ones I've had made are by Mark Curry - great mouthpieces, excellent selection, great price and very reasonable surcharge (depending on how/where you order it). In addition, I've had a couple of backbores made by Warburton and a complete Parduba mouthpiece made by Dick Akright's crew at Best in Oakland - and neither of those even charged extra for the modification. I've also run across the occasional vintage Bach mouthpiece with a tell-tale "O" marking, although they're harder to find.
Point being: there's no need to change the receiver on a vintage Olds cornet - the mouthpiece makers have stepped up and continue to provide some great choices. _________________ Vintage Olds & Reynolds & Selmers galore
Aubertins, Bessons, Calicchios, Courtois, Wild Things, Marcinkiewicz, Ogilbee Thumpet, DeNicola Puje, Kanstuls.... |
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entrancing1 Regular Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2010 Posts: 83 Location: Buffalo, NY
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Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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I have since ordered a custom Olds shank mouthpiece from Mark Curry Through the private message service on this forum. He had it made and shipped in two days. I've had Bach make one custom, 6-8 weeks, and I had Schilke make one. The turnaround time with Schilke was good, a week or two, but I had to ship the cornet to them so that they could take measurements. _________________ Old's (many) Trumpets, and cornets, Yamaha 668 and King Eroica French horns, King Liberty, Conn, 40A 40B, Conn 80A, Buescher 400 cornet and trumpet, model 9 and model 10-22 trumpets, Olds Flugelhorn, Kanstul CCT 920 Picc. |
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