View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Steve A Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2006 Posts: 1811 Location: Toronto, Canada
|
Posted: Fri May 17, 2013 1:25 pm Post subject: B+H Imperial Class A |
|
|
Hi all,
I'm going to try out a Boosey and Hawkes Imperial Class A (serial 129XXX) cornet tomorrow as a prospective instrument for one of my students. I don't have much experience with these instruments - can anyone give me some pointers on what to look for and/or look out for?
Thanks!
EDIT - if this helps/is relevant, it's not the shepherd's crook style. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5468 Location: Suffolk, England
|
Posted: Sat May 18, 2013 1:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hi
I have never heard of the Imperial Class A, only the Imperial (I have a late 1960s Imperial)
Presumably this is a very old instrument.
I am not sure whether it is relevant to a non shepherds crook model, but the shepherds crook mode Imperial, has a high pitch and low pitch version, as brass bands (was it only brass bands that played in high pitch?) changed from high pitch to low pitch A=440 (I'm very sorry I can't remember the date or the frequency of A with the high pitch).
If it is a high pitch conversion, depending on how well it has been converted, intonation can be a little interesting.
All the best
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Steve A Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2006 Posts: 1811 Location: Toronto, Canada
|
Posted: Sat May 18, 2013 6:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks! I'll be sure to check it with a tuner. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
FrankM Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2011 Posts: 545 Location: Lincolnshire England
|
Posted: Sat May 18, 2013 7:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
The serial number seems to date it to 1927. Boosey joined with Hawkes in 1934. So there's your first mystery. The B&H serial numbers start around 145000. Class 'A' is a designation more usualy associated with Besson. I don't think Imperial instruments existed pre 2nd WW so the earliest ones dating to late 1940's would have a serial number starting around 168000. If you buy the instrument I'd be interested to see some pictures.
Best wishes, Frank |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5468 Location: Suffolk, England
|
Posted: Sat May 18, 2013 10:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
Steve A wrote: | Thanks! I'll be sure to check it with a tuner. |
You are very welcome.
Take Care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ChopsGone Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Posts: 1793
|
Posted: Sat May 18, 2013 11:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
"Class A" was used by Boosey prior to the merger with Hawkes (which I believe was more like 1930). They also produced a second line, "Class B", which were reportedly not assembled on the same line as the best instruments. But it is likely to be an early instrument, and because the British brass bands persisted with HP instruments long after most of the rest of the Western world had switched to a=440, it definitely should be checked with a tuner. Some instruments were, of course, made with extra slides or other provisions for changing between HP and LP. _________________ Vintage Olds & Reynolds & Selmers galore
Aubertins, Bessons, Calicchios, Courtois, Wild Things, Marcinkiewicz, Ogilbee Thumpet, DeNicola Puje, Kanstuls.... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bob Stevenson Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 1139 Location: Essex, England
|
Posted: Sat May 18, 2013 12:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The Boosey Co. combined with Hawkes & Son in 1934. The serial number is a Boosey number for late 1927 to early 1928. That type of instrument was almost certainly made for export to the USA so is unlikely to be in high pitch,......it sould be marked 'LP'. British military bands changed to low, or 'orchestral' pitch in 1930, but brass bands did not change until immediately after WWII, and then took some 10+ years to do so. Most if not all British made instruments of this general era, ie, between the wars, are marked with a pitch legend. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
GordonH Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2002 Posts: 2895 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
|
Posted: Sun May 19, 2013 11:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Bob Stevenson wrote: | The Boosey Co. combined with Hawkes & Son in 1934. The serial number is a Boosey number for late 1927 to early 1928. That type of instrument was almost certainly made for export to the USA so is unlikely to be in high pitch,......it sould be marked 'LP'. British military bands changed to low, or 'orchestral' pitch in 1930, but brass bands did not change until immediately after WWII, and then took some 10+ years to do so. Most if not all British made instruments of this general era, ie, between the wars, are marked with a pitch legend. |
The Edinburgh City Brass Band stayed in high pitch until it folded in the 1980's! _________________ Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.
Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM |
|
Back to top |
|
|
CharlesM New Member
Joined: 19 May 2019 Posts: 1
|
Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 9:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
FrankM wrote: | The serial number seems to date it to 1927. Boosey joined with Hawkes in 1934. So there's your first mystery. The B&H serial numbers start around 145000. Class 'A' is a designation more usualy associated with Besson. I don't think Imperial instruments existed pre 2nd WW so the earliest ones dating to late 1940's would have a serial number starting around 168000. If you buy the instrument I'd be interested to see some pictures.
Best wishes, Frank |
Bob Stevenson wrote: | The Boosey Co. combined with Hawkes & Son in 1934. The serial number is a Boosey number for late 1927 to early 1928. That type of instrument was almost certainly made for export to the USA so is unlikely to be in high pitch,......it sould be marked 'LP'. British military bands changed to low, or 'orchestral' pitch in 1930, but brass bands did not change until immediately after WWII, and then took some 10+ years to do so. Most if not all British made instruments of this general era, ie, between the wars, are marked with a pitch legend. |
An attempt to address this mystery.
There's an Imperial Class A trumpet currently on sale on ebay, which led me to this thread. Looking then at Arnold Myers's "Journal of surviving Boosé, Boosey and Boosey & Hawkes brass instruments" (at http://homepages.ed.ac.uk/am/gdsj.html ) two things stood out.
Firstly, B&H have all kinds of brass instruments sold as "Imperial Class A" in exactly the post WW2 period.
Secondly, there are serial numbers and there are separate piston numbers, often (e.g. as in the current ebay item) on the 2nd valve casing. If the number 129xxx is a piston number, rather than a serial number, that would put the cornet in this thread (and trumpet one on ebay) as dating to the late 1940s - maybe 1947 or 1948. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2669 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
|
Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 12:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Back to it bering an instrument for a prospective student... no it is not. Giving a kid a tight blowing, (usually) clunky, heavy old cornet with no possibility of adjusting intonation will most likely not end up well.
Get them a more modern and acceptable playing instrument to start on.
cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|