C Trumpet Comparison

[BADBOY-DON]

Interesting that point that the Schilkes may soon...just might sound like the BACH? Pain, or pain and suffering.
JUST THINK WHAT WOULD HAPPEN, IF BACH BONDED WITH YAMAHA OR JUPITER.
We'd need a lot more than Dr. Zues's support?

OUCH!!!! Ah yes...
Remember the days when their beloved builder, Mr. Schilke, actually bonded with "The Nemisus called Yamaha?"
One would have thought Mr. S had committed Harrie'Carriemeback to old SelmerParis.
So many worlds were shattered when the new low cost YamahaLoy's started having the revenge against America...and the Beloved Bach n'Bengesters...the pain and angony of it all.

I wonder how Schilke delt with this kind of loyal customer who thought he consipered with the devil, when he bonded with "The Enemy?" Just razzin and jazzin.
In fact that test performed by Roy so very long ago with that new Yamaha...was in fact, one designed by Schilke and both he and the Yamaha bunch came together with a horn designed by Schilke for Yamaha. For example my old YTR739tr. 464 is an example of Mr. Schilke's effort with Yamaha. This horn, then we could perceive to be a Schilke Clone? Yes and no.

The new instruments of today and ....are truly amazing works of art, but still the bottom line is: How do they sound and how do they play?
Thanks for the clarification about the mouthpiece used and yes.....finding a consistent quality musician or musicians to help conduct a non-judgemental approach to a test who has the skills to give an honest appraisal is priority one but in the end:

I will defend your right to play and love any BACH or Yammie or Monette of your choosing...nallthatjazz.

[ This Message was edited by: BADBOY-DON on 2003-11-17 15:34 ]

[_dcstep]

Don, to the extent that I followed your discourse, I tend to agree with most everything you said. Maybe it's your writing style, but you seem agitated at people that build horns.

I intend to continue doing these "demonstration" comparisons. Next year I'll be certain that we have a new Selmer TT-C, a new Schilke C, a new Kanstul C, a new Callet C, a new Conn C, a new Yamaha Xeno C, a new Marcinkiewicz C and, of course, a Bach 229-25. I'd love to have a Monette, but someone else will have to grovel before that altar to get us a loaner.

Thanks for your support of my right to play what I want. It is a shame when a young person has to sell a truly super trumpet in order conform to a "standard" that's arbitrary and somewhat capricious.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

[BADBOY-DON]

On the contrary....
I have nuttin' but the deepest admiration for the artistry of trumpet builders and designers and as far as your comparisions go....I commend your willingness and passion to investigate and savor the pros and Conn's (pun intended) of these amazing pieces of Brass plumbing artisans.
As we know...its takes much more than just a "purty-face" (some truly beautiful looking and expensive brass instruments) some time vary considerably in their playability and sound...etc.

Whether we admit it or not...to err' is human...and so with that in mind...play testing and taste testing and ear-ball testing these works of art is still a one on one on one on one thing. No two BACHS, YAMAS AND THE REST OF THE PACK...are created equal. Some Great, some OK and some...well??? whatever???

Whether it be making and baking bread or making these world class instruments and like you say...some are very very expensive.

BOTTOM LINE: A very important one...whether it be bread, wine,trains, planes, automobiles or just making these pieces of brass art.....
CONSISTENCY IS THE KEY!

Thanks for sharing your ideas and comments about these instruments that we as trumpet geeks seem enjoy so very much.

[_dcstep]

You're welcome. You're welcome.

Yeah, with the feedback received here and the great reception that we got on site, I'm looking forward to next year's comparo, with a wider selection of horns and the addition of an acoutically transparent screen. Over in the Bb trumpet and flugel we'll probably go to a written, repeatable piece. Rodney played the "same" piece, but mixed the juice a little differently with each horn.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

[rafterman]

I appreciate bbd's example of how MP's and performers (and add to that other variables) can modify horn performance, making models seem similar and different. While "testing" horns at a fest is fun and interesting, I think trying to design the test using experimental methods is chasing your tail. The best you can do is describe the what, when, where, who, why, and how of the "test" - then say what happened.

There will always be ways to explain why the "top" and "bottom" horn performed - or were perceived to perform - the ways they did and challenge the results. - The horn wasn't representative of the line. - The player was getting tired as the test progressed. - The listeners varied were self-selected participants in an informal event who varied in their ability and motivation to interpret and assess the sounds. They also tired during the test procedure. - The hall where the test was conducted had a favorable impact on some horns and not others.

This isn't a question of how fair or able the players and listeners are. It's just a matter of of having a tight experimental methodology that's well executed at an informal trumpet fest.

[_dcstep]

Agreed, Rafterman.

I don't plan to make any major changes next year. This year's success will make it easier to get a broader selection of horns. Using an acoustically-transparent screen will remove one element of bias. The playing sequence will be made truly random and we'll keep the number of horns within reason for a "fun" outing (8 is probably the limit, even for a "casual" demonstration). The players were great and had the chops to pull it off. I may have a "legit" player also play the Bbs, in a scrambled order, so that we hear that different kind of resonance that a great legit player can impart from the same horns.

Those changes are fairly easy to implement and don't take away from the fun of any involved. One hour seems to be the limit in one setting, so I may have two session; one for Bb trumpets and flugels and one for C-Trumpets and piccs. (I'm undecided about the piccs because I think that a player really needs to work with each to get the most out of them. I could exclude the player's own make, but that might not be fair to Schilke around here. I'm still thinking about that issue).

Thanks for all the feedback.

Dave
_________________
Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest