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Hugh Anderson Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 Posts: 398
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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:33 am Post subject: price of gold |
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As the price of gold drops, does the price of having a trumpet gold-plated drop also? |
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Dan O'Donnell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2005 Posts: 2287
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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:54 am Post subject: |
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Since the price of having a Trumpet Gold plated increased as the price of Gold increased...I can only say..."The price of having a Trumpet Gold plated SHOULD drop along with the price of Gold."
On a side note...Don't believe those who say that the standard electro-plating of Gold on a Trumpet uses a full ounce of Gold...
You can get a Trumpet to have the COLOR of Gold by electro-plating a VERY THIN coating of Gold using less than a full ounce.
Other than my understanding electro-plating processes; I would remind you and others that some manufacturers charged around the same price to Gold plate a Trumpet as the price of an ounce of Gold.
Having stated the above; these businesses would LOSE money if they used a full ounce of Gold since there is a lot of time and labor involved prepping the horn etc. _________________ God Bless,
Dan O'Donnell
"Praise Him with the sound of the Trumpet:..."
Psalms 150:3 |
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veery715 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2007 Posts: 4313 Location: Ithaca NY
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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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I believe you could cover 4 or even more trumpets with an ounce of gold plating. _________________ veery715
Hear me sing!: https://youtu.be/vtJ14MV64WY
Playing trumpet - the healthy way to blow your brains out. |
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royjohn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2005 Posts: 2272 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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Being a little bit of a screwball, I did a rough calculation of the surface area of a trumpet and, figuring that an ounce of gold is about 0.1 cubic inch, a plating thickness of 0.0015" would indeed be about an ounce of gold. I probably overestimated the trumpet's area a bit. The 0.0015" thickness is the figure for a pretty heavy silver plate, but I would guess you could get away with about a third of that if using gold, so figure about a third of an ounce, possibly a little less.
I'm curious as to whether this seems correct based on what people are charging for gold plate. A lot of the labor is in prep. Once the horn is ready it only needs to be cleaned and silver underplated before the gold plating is done. This only takes seconds in the plating bath. If left too long, you'd use too much gold.
I'm pretty sure one of the platers would be happy to tell you how much gold they put on. _________________ royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . . |
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trpthrld Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 4825
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KanstulBrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jul 2003 Posts: 714 Location: California
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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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trpthrld wrote: | Kanstul charges for an ounce of gold at market price on the day they plate the horn. That's for a Bb or C or Cornet, probably also for a flugel. It'd be more for a Bb / A / G picc or D/Eb tunable bell trumpet. |
Close! It's the price of an ounce of gold at market price on the day we bought it. On occasion, we have dropped the price as appropriate. _________________ Charles G Hargett
Brass Industry Consultant
(Kanstul, Shires, BAC, Benge) |
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Capt.Kirk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 5792
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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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I doubt we will see a full drop based on market price. When has gas ever dropped back down to say $.89 a gallon even when the price drop has allowed for it to do that? Once we went past $4 a gallon the first time the price never dropped bellow $2 ever again well depending on where you lived.
Once a market push's past a previous price ceiling it will go up and down but will almost never go back bellow the now obsolete price ceiling of the past.
Yes, really wealthy powerful elite have been selling off some of the gold they horded early on. The price will drop again mostly based on lack of demand more then anything else. The same thing goes for the price of trumpet parts. When demand drops enough for a companies products both finished and parts for smaller shops the prices always fall. Nothing does anyone any good sitting on a shelf. You can only sit on something so long before it starts to lose it value as you have to pay to warehouse it. So demand more then market pressure is what set's the real price of items. Likewise as long as you can get enough people to pay what you want for a good or service then their is no problem with the price. _________________ The only easy day was yesterday! |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7016 Location: AZ
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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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Just a note: Kanstul does not electroplate gold. It is a non-electric process. They do electroplate silver.
Pricing for gold should be based on the replacement value of the gold solution, but it is hard for a company to accurately anticipate what they will have to pay in advance. Because the market price has not been stable, the cost has needed to remain high so that the manufacturer does not get caught out.
Brian _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Hugh Anderson Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Sep 2011 Posts: 398
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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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1837 bucks to 1276 this year. |
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Adrian D. Griffin Regular Member
Joined: 30 Jan 2013 Posts: 28 Location: Guadalajara, Mexico
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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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Anderson Silver Plating charges for the price of GOLD on that day. So..when the price in the market goes down, so does the the price of getting the trumpet plated!!!! _________________ Adrian D. Griffin |
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Michael Drapp Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Aug 2005 Posts: 410 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
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Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting discussion...Please take a look at the current price for a Schilke in gold; anywhere from $5,300 to $5,500. This is $1,000 higher than just a year or so ago. There is no question that this price level has decreased the demand for gold horns, yet, Monette raised the price of their instruments and there is still a long waiting list...some folks just don't care! If they want it, they want it and money does not factor into their demand decision. _________________ Michael R. Drapp,
Las Vegas, Nevada, USA |
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KanstulBrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jul 2003 Posts: 714 Location: California
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:04 am Post subject: |
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Adrian D. Griffin wrote: | Anderson Silver Plating charges for the price of GOLD on that day. So..when the price in the market goes down, so does the the price of getting the trumpet plated!!!! |
Perhaps they buy gold more frequently that Kanstul does, due to the higher volume of plating work they do. _________________ Charles G Hargett
Brass Industry Consultant
(Kanstul, Shires, BAC, Benge) |
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KanstulBrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jul 2003 Posts: 714 Location: California
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Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:27 am Post subject: |
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Just got a memo from Zig. The price to gold plate a trumpet went from approx $2400 down to $1900. This price is as of 18 July 2013, and is subject to change without notice. _________________ Charles G Hargett
Brass Industry Consultant
(Kanstul, Shires, BAC, Benge) |
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yourbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3670 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:46 am Post subject: |
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Anderson S.P. has had a surcharge on both silver and gold plating due to the wild price moves of those metals in recent years. So it's base price + surcharge. If someone wanted a trumpet overhauled and gold plated, you're looking at minimum $2,000 at our shop, maybe more, depending on condition. _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /James R. New Studio backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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KanstulBrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jul 2003 Posts: 714 Location: California
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Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:01 am Post subject: |
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yourbrass wrote: | Anderson S.P. has had a surcharge on both silver and gold plating due to the wild price moves of those metals in recent years. So it's base price + surcharge. If someone wanted a trumpet overhauled and gold plated, you're looking at minimum $2,000 at our shop, maybe more, depending on condition. |
Looks like we're right in there as well =) _________________ Charles G Hargett
Brass Industry Consultant
(Kanstul, Shires, BAC, Benge) |
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