Panicking with 3rd Valve, HELP!

WaxHaX0rS · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jul 2003 Posts: 524

I got my trumpet less than two weeks ago, it's a bach strad. The valves always worked brilliantly. Today, after my daily valve rinse and re-oiling, I was warming up. I spend about 5-10 minutes warming up flawlessly. Suddenly the third valve just came to a halt half way up on the upward stroke. I got it up and it got stuck everytime I pushed it down. I took it out and cleaned it and re-oiled a bunch of times (including the casing) and everytime I try to put the valve it, it seems like it have to push hard to get it to go in (I don't push hard, I just take them back out because I don't want to scratch the valves even more than they already are). I'm just in highschool and my dad just bought me this horn, he'd be very upset if he found out that it needed repairs! Can somebody help?!? (does anyone know how long the Selmer warrantee lasts? My dad sent it in and I dont live with him so I can't ask him right now.

AeroStud1026 · Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:32 pm Post subject:

Omg...that EXACT same thing happened with me with my Conn...I took it in the shop....the 3rd valve was slightly bent....I dont know how tho....I mean all i did was clean and oil just what u did....

douglast35758 · Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:49 pm Post subject:

Two other considerations. First, the point where the tubing enters the valves of Strads can be quite rough. Check to make sure that no remnants of your cleaning rag are caught on that rough edge. The second is, check to be absolutely sure that there are no metal filings anywhere in the valve block.

Be sure you always use lint-free cleaning cloths; something like men's handkerchiefs work well to draw through the valves. Only use horn brushes (HW makes a great set) and the aluminum puller Selmer included with the horn when cleaning the horn. When you clean it, use a can of pressurized air to blow any foreign matter out before reassembling the horn (any office supply or Home Depot type place). Since the valves have such tight clearances, it doesn't take much interference to make them stick.

Please do these checks before running to the repair shop. Unless you know you pinged the valve block when cleaning the horn, you should not have suddenly developed a problem. the repairman can do more harm than good if they assume you already did the simple checks.

Good luck.
Doug

WaxHaX0rS · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jul 2003 Posts: 524

Anyone know anything about the warranty? I'm tending to think something is bent because the valve barely gets in there and there are scratches all along the valve from me trying to put it back. Multiple scratches along that whole circumference is leading me to believe that it's not one small foreign particle.

plankowner110 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 3620

If you purchased the Bach from a local Bach dealer, they should stand behind their product and make it right without any question. Mail order purchases can be a different story. Take the horn to the store right away to have it looked at. Sorry to hear that you are having such a problem with your first pro horn.
_________________
C. G. Conn 60B Super Connstellation
Getzen 800S Eterna cornet
Bach 5C (Jens Lindemann is right)
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26763

WaxHaX0rS · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jul 2003 Posts: 524

We bought it at a local bach dealer, we'll probably take it to them. Hopefully if something needs to be done, it'll be free.

jamesfrmphilly · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:14 am Post subject:

relax, don't worry so much.
your dealer should be able to fix it for you.
_________________
1946 Martin Committee, Bach 5V

jamesfrmphilly · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:16 am Post subject:

relax, don't worry so much.
your dealer should be able to fix it for you.
_________________
1946 Martin Committee, Bach 5V

trickg · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:35 am Post subject:

Unfortunately, from what you are describing I don't think that there is anything short of taking it in to be repaired that you can do for it. If you continue to mess with it, it's only going to get worse.

How careful have you been about taking the valve out and reinserting it after oiling? I have never in almost 17 years on Bachs had any real trouble with any of my valves, with the exception of my first Bach that after 11 years of almost constant use was starting to get worn a bit (thanks to the way I push a little sideways when I play) right before I sold it. They were just starting to stick a bit. I actually accidentally dropped a valve on a hard tile floor once, but after cleaning and oiling, it went back in just fine and worked like a champ.

Take it to the dealer where you got it. They probably have a repair shop and can fix it in a jiff and it might even be covered under some sort of warrantee.
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

Tootsall · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 May 2002 Posts: 2952

The last time you cleaned it before it "stuck"... do you remember if you might have accidentally dropped one of the valves or maybe allowed one to "knock" against another one? Or perhaps you had run a snake through the horn and hit the "opposite side" of one of the valve casings? I had something similar happen and discovered that, due to my own clumsiness, I had generated a tiny little deformity right at the bottom of the piston so that the valve was "hanging up" on the valve bore right where one of the slides "entered" the valve cylinder bore. Try a measurement of the position where the piston starts to "hang" and then inspect the inside of the casing at that same area and see if something has been scratched or dented. Check the very bottom of the piston also.

You could try different valves in that position to see if they move freely...this will generally indicate if the problem is one of the valve piston or the valve cylinder.

Perhaps you bumped the slide and the casing is now slightly bent. In any event...it needs the repair shop.

WaxHaX0rS · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jul 2003 Posts: 524

It's not the casing, I slipped the 2nd valve into the 3rd valve casing and it moved smoothly. So I think the piston is warped. At any rate, my dad is going to take it to the dealer tomorrow and they are going to handle it. Hopefully replace the piston. The trumpet is under warranty from Selmer and valves and valve parts are covered. I hope they don't just "unbend" and say "here you go, good as new" because it's also scratched to hell. We'll have to see.

AeroStud1026 · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 6:30 pm Post subject:

if the valve and valve parts are covered i think they would replace the valve...easier on them

musiclifeline · Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 7:20 pm Post subject:

you could also try placing the other two valves one at a time in the third valve casing and see if they go down smoothly. that way you should be able (somewhat) to determine if it's the casing or the valve itself.

AeroStud1026 · Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:30 am Post subject:

jhatpro · Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2003 6:12 am Post subject:

I've seen pro techs remove the bottom caps and insert troublesome valves from that end to try to locate an anomaly. You might give that a try. Ultimately, it sounds like you're going to need expert help. Just be sure you pick the right expert. Don't just leave the horn with a clerk at the front register. Do some checking around to find someone who works on trumpets and, ideally, has experience with Bachs.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

hazmat · Heavyweight Member Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 669

About the warranty. There is a warranty on a=every Bach horn. I don't remember how long it is but I definitely remember getting a warranty card. It's at home though so I can't read it to you.

WaxHaX0rS · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jul 2003 Posts: 524

This store has a few shops located throughout the state. I have to take it to a dealer I bought it from for the warranty. Anyway, the guy at the nearby shop said it would be sent to their main shop in another city. They have a brass repairman there. I think that he is probably qualified to take a new valve and put in it, as that is what I think they are going to do. (that's what the clerk at the local shop said that he thought).