My picc. plays out of tune.

trumpetchops · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 2644

I have a Selmer 4 valve picc. with Blackburn lead pipes.
I play on a Monette B15M. I also have a B15lD for lead work.
When I use the shallower mouthpiece in the picc. It plays wildly out of tune.
For people that play Bach, before Monette I played Bach 1B and I bought a 1E for picc. It never worked.
I have tried Zettola also. Deeper OK, shallow n.g. Why?

fuzzyjon79 · Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 5:54 am Post subject:

I used to have the same problem and then I tried out a Warburton SV cup and the slight V shape worked out for me tremendously! If you can try out a Warburton SV cup or anything that is shallow, but has a slight V shape to it, then I would recommend that. See if that helps you out. Also, if you don't mind changing rims, maybe try something with a smaller rim diameter?
_________________
J. Fowler
"It takes a big ole' sack of flour, to make a big ole' pan of biscuits!"

trumpetmike · Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 7:29 am Post subject:

How new is the Piccolo?

I played one of the newer ones at ITG Texas earlier this year and was very unimpressed with the tuning. I spend a lot of my time playing piccolo and couldn't get them to play in tune either.

I am a Warburton user (for all instruments) and found that changing the shank made a huge impact upon the tuning, especially on piccolo. I find it works much better if I use a different shank on A or Bb piccolo, it is that sensitive!

For the record, I use a BC11* when playing Bb piccolo and a 7* on the A side, using a 1MC top for the Bb (especially in the extreme high range) and a 1MD for the A, unless it goes stratospheric, then I use the 1MC.

Good luck in yor quest - it took me about 5 years to find a mouthpiece that played my piccolo (F Besson) in tune and even then it sometimes needs to be altered, depending upon the acoustics, how tired I'm ffeling and who I am playing with. I usually caryy 3 or 4, just in case, although I hardly ever use them.

johntpt · Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 9:40 am Post subject:

Most piccs with the Blackburn pipes play decently well in tune. How does your B15 Monette work on the picc? You could call Monette and ask what they recommend for your horn/leadpipe combination.

Like TrumpetMike, finding a mpc for picc can be a never ending search. It is good to have lots of options available. Try to get to a good music store or mpc maker to try as many options as possible. Sometimes you'll be surprised by what actually works!

JU

trumpetchops · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 2644

Answers to questions:

My picc. is about twenty-five years old.

When I play with the B15M it plays fine.

The trumpet used to play out of tune all the time, very hard to play. The Blackbern pipes fixed that when I play a deep mouthpiece.

Maybe there is a trumpet maker out there that can say why the shallower mouthpiece goes out of tune.

loudog · Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 10:28 am Post subject:

Maybe you should try playing a smaller rim size...like try a Monette 2 or 3 series...maybe even 4. I myself am a Monette player, and use the 2 series on my larger horns, but use a smaller size mouthpiece on my piccolo...FWIW I am using a GR 65PM on my Blackburn picc, which I think is like a 3D. I played Monette picc mouthpieces for a while, but just didn't like them for my piccolo trumpet, I never figured it out. I am really happy with the GR.

Louie

Haplo · Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 6:33 am Post subject:

I once had a problem with intonation on my pic and I cound't understand it because the blackburn pipe had really made things wonderful. It then dawned on me that I hand't cleaned it for a few months because I wasn't using it all that often. A little crud goes a long way when talking about the small tubing on a pic. You may already know this and it may not be your problem but I figured I would mention it anyway. -Haplo
_________________
"... and when I got all done he said, 'Well you're my next principal trumpet player.' And I said, 'Okay, I'll go home and practice.'" -A. Herseth

trumpetchops · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 2644

Haplo,

I have not cleaned the horn in years. I don't think that is the problem because it works with a deep mouthpiece.

I am going to wash it anyway and let you know what happens.
Thanks for the advise

drunkiq · Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 12:06 pm Post subject:

I would also assume that when you use a mouthpice that small that your regular trumpet is out of tune too... my initial guess is that you are rolling in the lip to much on the shallow mouhpice to prevent from bottoming out - this WILL make your tuning go crazy...

-marc

trumpetchops · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 2644

drunkiq,

I can play on the shallower mouthpiece on my B flat OK.
I just read your answer on a break from practicing and I was playing the picc.
I went back and tried what you said. The bottom lip made a huge difference but its still hard to stay in tune.

B15M mouthpiece on A picc. low c to high f all OK.
B15LD mouthpiece on A picc. low c to high f , high c is way sharp. I can lip it down but why does it do that? Above that up to g all OK.
B15LD mouthpiece on E flat trumpet low C to high C, high C OK.

[ This Message was edited by: trumpetchops on 2003-12-07 15:46 ]

wiseone2 · Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 1:06 pm Post subject:

We trumpet players tend to blame the equipment when sometimes we are at fault.
How in tune is it when you play on the mouthpiece without the horn?
Can you sing what you are trying to play in tune?
Most times, tuning up our ears is what has to be done to cure an intonation problem.
Wilmer
_________________
"Be sure Brain is engaged before putting Mouthpiece in gear"
S.Suark-1951

trumpetchops · Heavyweight Member Joined: 29 Jun 2003 Posts: 2644

wiseone2,

I don't think it is my ear because I can hear what is going on and I can put it in tune. I just don't want to muscle the notes if I don't have too.

I am kind of a come back player so college was a long time ago, but I got an A in sight singing.

Thank you very much for taking the time to post an answer.