Noisy Valve Guides

jhatpro · Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 1:30 pm Post subject:

The metal valve guides on my 1965 Paris LeBlanc (made by Courtois) flugel rattle like crazy.

Anyone have a suggestion for correcting the problem?

One very good repair person has tackled the problem without success.

The horn plays easily and sounds great. But the rattle is annoying.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

Fast Freddy · Regular Member Joined: 12 Sep 2003 Posts: 99

Hi Jim,

Any way you can post a picture of the valve assembly? Tough to say, cause there are so many different setups out there but a picture would definitely be worth a thousand words here.

"Plastic" guides might help a little but I'm curious to know the setup. Are the valves noisy on compression or just on the release?

Thanks.

_PhilPicc · Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 2:41 pm Post subject:

My first look would be to see if you need new springs. More information would help. Tough to say right now.
_________________
Philip Satterthwaite

We cannot expect you to be with us all the time, but perhaps you could be good enough to keep in touch now and again."
- Sir Thomas Beecham to a musician during a rehearsal

_PhilPicc · Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 2:48 pm Post subject:

Hi Jim,

I didn't read it was you. I assume you checked with Wayne. Do the valves work but are just noisy?

I know a very good valve man in my area. Let me know a bit more and I will get in touch with him and see what he thinks.

Regards,
Phil
_________________
Philip Satterthwaite

We cannot expect you to be with us all the time, but perhaps you could be good enough to keep in touch now and again."
- Sir Thomas Beecham to a musician during a rehearsal

jhatpro · Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 2:58 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the feedback. Actually, I just had the valves replated and the job included new springs. As for when it rattles, I'd have to say pretty much all the time. Both downstroke and upstroke. Funny thing is it didn't do this before the replating. I know that implies a cause, but I can't imagine how. As I mentioned, the horn plays very well, especially after the valve job.

I'm working on posting a photo, although I don't know as it's going to show much. I don't have an extreme close up lens and these guides are very, very small, They're situated at the top of the assembly and protrude only very slightly.

Thanks again for your insights, guys.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

jhatpro · Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 3:29 pm Post subject:

Here's the nuttiest thing -- I decided to replace the new valve springs with the old ones and the rattles went away! Guess the old girl just doesn't like to be messed with.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

trumpetmike · Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 12:48 pm Post subject:

Sometimes what has worked for years is the way to go.

I have never seen the appeal of the metal valve guides. Wherever I can I prefer to use the plastic ones. The argument about the plastic wearing out is not a problem - you can get new ones very easily for most makes. I just don't like the noise of metal on metal.

One way I have found of keeping the guides slightly quieter is to put a dollop of tuning slide grease on the metal guides. It doesn't seem to affect the speed they move and it does help keep the noise down.

jhatpro · Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2003 12:51 pm Post subject:

The noise returned so I took the horn to Wayne Tanabe at The Brass Bow and, for a very reasonable price, he replaced the metal guides with nylon. No more rattle!
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle