I don't get it...

blasticore · Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 11:15 am Post subject:

I know Pilczuk leadpipes are said to be great, and people go after those things often enough. But...why aren't these horns moving? Shouldn't they be unbelievably good? There's a bid on one of them. Shouldn't people be trampling each other trying to get to them? Slap me for asking, but what's wrong with them?

Horns:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2366175135&category=41398
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2366174562&category=41398
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trumplyr · Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 11:24 am Post subject:

Maybe the answer to your question is in the ad........."Does anyone know who built this thing?"

Nothing against Pilczuk pipes, played one for a couple of years, but if you put perfume on a pig you still have a pig ( no offense meant to pigs or the horn in question ).

BTW, can anyone tell from the photo what brand horn it is?

Marty

davo · Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 11:36 am Post subject:

I looked at these also. My take is that most of us want to know more about the donor horn that these were built from. The bell configuratiion on both horns seems real funky. The bell on Bb seems to be bent down just a bit, but more curious is that thing on the bells at the flare. Is that a sleeve or collar or a large ferrule of some type? I'm not sure why you'd want to add more mass at that point in the bell. The Bb doesn't have a 2nd slide tuning saddle which would be important to me, although it is said that the Pilczuk pipe improves intonation to the point that the tuning appointment might be unnecessary. Also, there is probably a rather small market for a D trumpet.

Anyway, I'd like to more about the design concept of these trumpets other than the leadpipe if anyone should know.

Dave

Trptbenge · Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:13 pm Post subject:

Dave,

I agree I would like to know about the origin of these horns. The D looks a little like an Olds that was converted to a D Trumpet. I don't think the Pilczuk pipes have anything to do with them not moving. I don't think I would buy a horn that I didn't know the brand name & model on. I played a Selmer K-Modified a couple of weeks ago at a Music Store with a Pilczuk Pipe and it was the best playing K Modified I ever have played. Tom Turner has a bach Strad with a Pilczuk pipe that plays incredibly well. The concept is great on the right horn and installed by the right technician.

Mike

jhatpro · Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:44 pm Post subject:

I talked about this with Wayne Tanabe of The Brass Bow when the D horn was listed the first time. Wayne said he knew Gene Pilczyuk and didn't think he built any horns from scratch. So the question, as other posters have noted, is what kind of horn(s) are they? Bach? Benge? Olds? Or something else?

For the record, have a Pilczuyk pipe on a 1937 Olds Super and it plays beautifully. I supposed one could assume that Pilczuyk wouldn't have put one of his pipes on just any old horn, but it would be nice to know for sure.
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Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus

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trumpet_dude_1 · Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 12:46 pm Post subject:

Those two horns were on ebay a few months ago and supposedly were made by Pilczuk himself. Supposedly he had many "project" horns where he was try different accoustical ideas. These have an adjustable bell and look to be able to be rotated (not sure what good that would do). If I remember correctly there was a thread on here or TPIN about it. If I had the money I'd probably buy one of them for the novelty, heck they might be a good horn. Either way they are very rare and built by a very knowlegable tech. If anyone has money and wants to go out on a limb, please report how they play. I'm very curious, but also very broke

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Matt Stevens
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DavesTrumpet · Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 1:40 pm Post subject:

Both horns appear to be built on student line valve sets. Beware, the D trumpet ain't going to play in tune--just dig the length of the #2 slide--it's even too long for C pitch. Well, really, the whole horn looks pitched in C but even if it is a C trumpet, the #2 slide is too long. Interesting bells on both horns.

Dave M

UsedBits · Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 1:45 pm Post subject:

My guess about the bell is that it is a cheap two-piece bell where the rate of tarnish on the flair is different that the rate on the bell pipe.

Also, note that the tuning crook on the 'Bb' turns at the end of the 3rd valve slide. Most Bb tuning crooks turn between the end of the 3rd slide and the bell. On the other hand, many C trumpets tuning crook turn at the end of the 3rd slike. My guess is that the 2nd of the two trumpets listed, described as a Bb, may, in fact, be a C trumpet.

None of the parts appear to be from a Benge - the 2nd valve points toward the mouthpiece, and Benge bells are 1 piece. Also, Benge does not use a variable 3rd finger adjustment and does not use Amado spit valves.
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DavesTrumpet · Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2003 2:19 pm Post subject:

Nothing really appears unusual with the Bb except that it appears to be built on a student line body. The #3 slide is extended in the pic, making it look too long. I think that's what UsedBits is talking about ("..note that the tuning crook on the 'Bb' turns at the end of the 3rd valve slide. Most Bb tuning crooks turn between the end of the 3rd slide and the bell.")

It's the "D" I'm concerned about. That's a C, if you ask me with slides not quite cut the right length.

Dave M