View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
NTlead Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2003 Posts: 1136 Location: Philadelphia
|
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 5:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Any one played the saturn water keys? They claim that they make the trumpet sound better. But Ive got my doubts. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TimBrown Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 742 Location: Galesburg Illinois
|
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 5:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ok, I could be wrong but I fail to see how they could be making a claim that is very factual....! No matter what you have, it's the same basic thing; a hole in the tubing that has a plug. The only difference is the "unplugging" mechanism. Sounds a little far out to me...
Tim _________________ Getzen 900 DLX
Kanstul Meha .470
L.A. Benge 3x+ 9879
1912 Holton New Proportion cornet
Kanstul CCF 925 flugel
King 1122 MFH
10 out of 10 people die. Do you consider yourself to be a good person? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cujazztrpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Jul 2003 Posts: 697 Location: Jacksonville,FL
|
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
I don't mind them but I would rather have the standard!! you cant go wrong with it. _________________ Playing music is better than playing notes!
www.soundclick.com/cujazztrpt |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ZeroMan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Jul 2002 Posts: 1112
|
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
I have to come feel that the Amado water key's bad rap is fairly earned. Amados are yet another finicky mechanical device to deal with on an instrument, and who needs the extra grief? Also, many people just don't know how to properly drain water out of an instrument with properly functioning Amado water keys- it's just counterintuitive compared to draining water on an instrument with standard water keys.
I prefer standard water keys even though I'm making my comeback on an instrument which has Amado water keys. I remember not having to occasionally oil the standard water keys on my first trumpet, and being able to make spit draining a muscular breathing exercise.
The only quality I would give to an Amado waterkey over its standard counterpart is cosmetic, and that is strictly my opinion. I happen to think Amados look better. Neither water key type does anything for the sound, and in the end, that is what counts the most. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
getzenguy700 Regular Member
Joined: 26 Oct 2003 Posts: 70 Location: Wisconsin
|
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
I personally don't notice a difference in the draining efficiency of the Amados vs. the standard lever. I do however like the Amado keys because i feel they just look better. I feel that something made of metal should be COMPLETELY made of metal (the pads on levers). |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ajomdahl Regular Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2003 Posts: 22 Location: Olympia, WA
|
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 11:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
I've always used lever type waterkeys until I bought a Kanstul flugel about 8 yrs ago. Recently, I had Roy Lawler build me a horn with amado keys and what I've found is that they are more efficient. Now, the flugel keys tend to stick because I don't play that horn as much. Oiling the keys and oiling down the leadpipe as a lubricating regimen is a good way to minimize any sticking. What I have discovered is that water streams out of the horn (rather than being deflected by the lever keys) so I need to use layers of paper towels rather than just a couple. Being aware of horn angle and blowing easily are important considerations. All in all, I'm in support of the Amados. Andy~ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
trumpetmike Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Aug 2003 Posts: 11315 Location: Ash (an even smaller place ), UK
|
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 1:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Not a fan.
Should a lever water key go wrong, you can wrap an elastic band round it as a temporary measure, or tie it shut. If an Amado gets stuck in the open position you can really be in trouble, especially if you haven't packed the all important paperclip, just in case!
As for the speed of emptying and amount it lets out in go, I have not had too much of a problem. The levers seem slightly easier blowing to empty, but it is fairly marginal.
I have to admit, I also am not a great fan of the look. They never quite (for me) look like they belong on a trumpet. Maybe it's year's of levers, but I just don't like the way they look.
I have them on my flugel and would prefer levers. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Tootsall Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 May 2002 Posts: 2952
|
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Why not read up on what Denis Wedgwood has to say about the Saturn water key? You can find it at:
http://www.deniswedgwood.com/saturn.htm
(thereby also providing a link to Denis's homepage!)
Not for 'em, not against 'em; but they do seem to have potential for being an improvement. I'd have to try 'em first. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
trumpet356 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2003 Posts: 2166 Location: Sunnyvale, CA
|
Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 5:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: |
On 2003-12-08 19:12, TimBrown wrote:
My Kanstul has amados. And yes, I have problems with them. Nearly every time I have to flip my flugel around like a french horn to get the water out. On the first valve slide I have to pull the slide off.
Tim
|
Thanks to everyone for their input on this issue. I thought I was the only one with this problem. I've had two horns with Amados - a Getzen Eterna, and my brand new Kanstul 700. Even after blowing out the water from the Amados, I would still often have to take off the second and first valve slides to get the rest. Not good.
Based on Rich Willey's post, I went back to my dealer (Dick Akright's A&G Music in Oakland, CA), and asked if he would retrofit the slides with the old lever-style spit valves. Since the horn was basically brand new, he said he'd check with Kanstul about swapping the 1st & 3rd slides for new ones with the levers. They shipped them within a week (free!), and I picked them up today. MUCH BETTER!!! And I don't notice any difference in the playing characteristics (except the darn thing still tops out at about High D : ) At least now I can spend less time pulling slides, and more time practicing!
Big thanks to Kanstul and Dick Akright. If you like their horns, you cannot go wrong with Kanstul and their service. They definitely take care of their customers.
Joe |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BDsop96 Regular Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2003 Posts: 11
|
Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 7:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It depends on the horn, mostly the key of the horn, weather or not you will notice any playability changes. It isn't going to change the "sound" of the horn but could affect intonation; most commonly in C trumpets. Please see the link below for the basic "skinny" on these little gems (scroll to the bottom of the page to read about the Amado key).
http://www.aminortuneup.com/custom.htm
_________________
-Chris Cromer
Custom Trumpet Modifications, Repairs and Accessories-
www.aminortuneup.com
[ This Message was edited by: BDsop96 on 2003-12-20 22:22 ] |
|
Back to top |
|
|
plankowner110 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 3620
|
Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 8:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't care for Amado water keys. Interesting design, but so was the Edsel. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|