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TrumpetDoctors New Member
Joined: 10 Jun 2015 Posts: 5 Location: Ohio United States
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:37 am Post subject: Using Rubber Bands to Hold Slides In |
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I tried using rubber bands to hold the 1st and 3rd slides in and to aid in them springing back, but it left black marks on the valve casing that won't come off. Kind of like burn marks, they apparently corrode right through the silver in very little time. Anyone know how to fit that? The typical silver polish rag doesn't help at all. ---Thanks! _________________ www.trumpetdoctors.com |
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oxleyk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 4180
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:39 am Post subject: |
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Use ponytail holders. Don't they teach that in trumpet doctor school? |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12677 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:45 am Post subject: |
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They don't corrode through. The sulphur in the rubber combines with the silver to create silver sulphide, tarnish. Really good silver tarnish.
I had luck in reducing the marks left by the gutter guard using the aluminum foil, baking soda and boiling water. They didn't go completely away, but are almost gone. |
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SilentBang Regular Member
Joined: 29 Dec 2014 Posts: 48 Location: New Jersey
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:55 am Post subject: |
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LittleRusty wrote: | They don't corrode through. The sulphur in the rubber combines with the silver to create silver sulphide, tarnish. Really good silver tarnish.
I had luck in reducing the marks left by the gutter guard using the aluminum foil, baking soda and boiling water. They didn't go completely away, but are almost gone. |
I was taught that boiling water causes the braces to pop because the solder and the brass have different coefficients of expansion, but how did that go? I'm curious because I've never tried anything more than lukewarm water |
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snichols Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Posts: 586 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:09 am Post subject: |
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Don't know about fixing it, but I will second the idea of using hair ties (pony tail holders). They have soft coatings and I've been using them for years without incident. |
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MacMichael Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 May 2011 Posts: 646
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:25 am Post subject: |
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snichols wrote: | Don't know about fixing it, but I will second the idea of using hair ties (pony tail holders). They have soft coatings and I've been using them for years without incident. |
Ha, sure thing! #3
Positive slide effect: it is secured and will not get loose
Positive side effect: you see more girls with beautiful hair worn loose
Last edited by MacMichael on Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8921 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:19 am Post subject: |
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I high school I succeeded in reversing a nasty case of a mouthpiece turned purple when the silver plating was attacked by a disinfectant bath in chlorine. I believe that a soak in a weak solution of hydrochloric acid did the trick. Can't say if the same would work here. Proceed with caution. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:28 am Post subject: |
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oxleyk wrote: | Use ponytail holders. Don't they teach that in trumpet doctor school? |
+1 |
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SALUKIGUY Regular Member
Joined: 29 May 2006 Posts: 75 Location: Edwardsville
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:59 am Post subject: |
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I used pony tail holders and they also caused black marks. I really don't want to try that again. _________________ Saluki Guy |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12677 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:30 am Post subject: |
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SilentBang wrote: | LittleRusty wrote: | They don't corrode through. The sulphur in the rubber combines with the silver to create silver sulphide, tarnish. Really good silver tarnish.
I had luck in reducing the marks left by the gutter guard using the aluminum foil, baking soda and boiling water. They didn't go completely away, but are almost gone. |
I was taught that boiling water causes the braces to pop because the solder and the brass have different coefficients of expansion, but how did that go? I'm curious because I've never tried anything more than lukewarm water |
I followed the instructions posted here on TH a while back by Don Herman. It called for boiling water. That is what I used and nothing happened.
Don Herman rev2 wrote: | Heat the water to boiling. Remove it from the heat and place it in a sink. To the hot water, add about one cup of baking soda for each gallon of water. (If you need only half a gallon of water, use half a cup of baking soda.) The mixture will froth a bit and may spill over; this is why you put it in the sink.
Pour the hot baking soda and water mixture into the pan, and completely cover the silver. |
In later posts I that I just found Don warns against using boiling water. |
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Don Herman rev2 'Chicago School' Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 8951 Location: Monument, CO
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:09 am Post subject: |
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Yup, I do not recommend actually dumping the horn in boiling water because of the risk of popping solder joints. Pretty sure that's in every post I made about the procedure; if not, it should be.
In any event, bearing in mind my college inorganic chemistry classes were decades ago, sulfur found in natural rubber and perhaps some synthetics creates a very tight bond with the silver (much tighter than "normal" oxidation) and is almost impossible to remove. For this reason I have always advocated against using rubber bands, And yes I learned the hard way!
Repeated application of the baking soda method is all I have had any success with outside of working with a real chemist (in a PCB shop, not the person most players would know).
Do NOT try to clean it off with silver polish; you, or at least I, will wear through the finish to get rid of the tarnish.
IME/IMO/IMwhatever - Don _________________ "After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley |
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Mike Sailors Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Oct 2012 Posts: 1838 Location: Austin/New York City
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Use hair ties. _________________ www.mikesailors.com |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8921 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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SALUKIGUY wrote: | I used pony tail holders and they also caused black marks. I really don't want to try that again. |
In my limited experience, various types of hair ties provide various amounts of insulation from the offending rubber. I suspect all will discolor the silver in time, particularly as they wear and the insulating material compresses or abrades. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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homecookin Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Nov 2013 Posts: 868
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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I have had the same problem with my old Bach 43 lightweight.
I used a product called Tarn -EX which is made by 3M
(Minnesota Mining and Manufacturing Corporation )
Tarn- Ex is a tarnish remover, it is not a silver polish.
It took a little elbow grease but it did remove the black marks that were left by the rubber bands. |
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Croquethed Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Dec 2013 Posts: 621 Location: Oakville, CT
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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O-rings for slides are $7 a dozen at Osmun. My stock o-rings still going great after 18 months, think I can spring for the replacements when necessary. |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8921 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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O-rings for the individual slide tubes that keep it from clunking is not what's being discussed here. It's a band that attaches to a movable slide that pulls it back towards the valve block when you let go. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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dstdenis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Yamaha provides a silicone rubber slide stopper with their Xeno trumpets. They say that it won't mar the finish because it's made of silicone rubber, not latex rubber. (Silicone won't stain the finish; latex will.)
The Horn Guys website has a page for this product, but they currently show out of stock. Anyway, here's a page that shows a picture of this product and describes the benefit of silicone vs. latex rubber:
http://hornguys.myshopify.com/products/xeno-trumpet-slide-stopper
You might try to find this at another retailer or find some kind of rubber band made from silicone. _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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SALUKIGUY wrote: | I used pony tail holders and they also caused black marks. I really don't want to try that again. |
Me too; apparently some of them allow rubber to contact the finish.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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mcgovnor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Posts: 2607 Location: ny ny
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:46 pm Post subject: t |
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Trumpet doctor school.. |
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RandyTX Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5299 Location: Central Texas
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Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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Those little elastic luggage tag strings will also work, but they are abrasive and will rub a thin line into the finish.
Funny how people almost universally hate slide triggers, yet want this feature anyway. _________________ "Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away." |
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