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Iriani Regular Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2014 Posts: 24 Location: Kalispell, MT
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Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:49 pm Post subject: Dental Surgery and Implant |
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Well, since I am pushing 60, I knew when I decided to come back on trumpet that dental issues could slow me down. But so far, 2015 has put me at a standstill. I am off the horn for 4 to 5 weeks due to having a broken implant reciever, upper molar, removed and an extraction of a cracked canine on the other side, with bone grafts and sinus lifts to prepare for two more future implants. I had planned to drop out of community band, but the director suggested I try doing something with the percussion section, and that has been a challenge, a joy, and a big help relieving my anxiety over laying off trumpet. At my trumpet teachers suggestion I am filling my spare time with percussion and piano studies, in theory to improve my ability to improvise when I get back on the horn. I now have a clear plastic retainer with a false canine and molar inset that completely covers my upper teeth. It feels pretty good, but I wonder how I will be able to play. I'll have that for about 9 months, with another 4 weeks off the horn when the implant screws go in. Any advice about learning to play with retainer, or about the whole process? I have had implants, bone grafts and sinus lifts before, just not while trying to play a horn. _________________ Bach Strad 37
Olds Ambassador Fullerton Trumpet (junker for hazardous)
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Cornet
Curry DC cornet mpc
Olds Ambassador Los Angeles Cornet
Curry 3DC O cornet mpc
Olds Ambassador Alto Horn Eb and F slides |
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returningplayer Regular Member
Joined: 13 Feb 2015 Posts: 19
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Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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I am posting this because I am *most* interested in anything you might learn in your dental experience. I am going to have two implants (top front) this year, and would very much enjoy reading any words of wisdom you may have! |
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KennyR Regular Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2015 Posts: 12 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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I am a comeback player going on 62. I have been playing sporadically for off and on for the last 10 years. I just recently started doing some serious playing again. I started practicing then I too had a sinus lift done and other dental work. I also had 3 implants put in my lower jaw replacing the molars on both right and left side. My top front teeth I had crowns put on about 3 years ago. It has been a week since the implants were put in and I am suffering trying to keep my embouchure up. I have not stopped practicing even though my muscles do seem to hurt more. I just take some ibuprofen and keep on going. When I had the crowns put on my front teeth I thought it was all over cause I did not want to cause any pressure against the teeth. I decided now was a good time to relearn and this time use no mpc pressure to get to the higher register. The way your suppose to do it. It has been a long and arduous task but I am slowly getting there. Hang in there. I might suggest to get the P.E.T.E. from warburton and work with it to keep your embouchure strong. Maybe do some light buzzing on the mouthpiece. Let me know how it works out for you. Best of Luck |
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mcgovnor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Posts: 2607 Location: ny ny
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:59 pm Post subject: it |
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Well, here goes. It's a nightmare. I began the process a few years ago. Sinus lift etc. Two weeks following, I was numb on the left side of my upper lip. One post was removed. The feeling slowly returned about 85% and I adapted. Meanwhile I am absolutely frightened to continue, so I'm missing 3 teeth on the left side. Front are ok thank God. One implant on right side is ok. A trombonist friend was in the process when, in the chair, a searing pain shot across the left side of his mouth. He was a working orchestral player. Hasn't played since. Proceed at your own risk. |
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KennyR Regular Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2015 Posts: 12 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 3:36 am Post subject: |
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You want to make sure you have a dentist and oral surgeon that knows what they are doing. Your nerve runs along your jawbone. If they drill down and hit that nerve it can cause all kinds of havoc. Make sure you get a CT scan of your jaw. Xrays won't cut it. Then make sure your dentist/oral surgeon can show you and explain to you the scan results. I had implants put in that came out and luckily he did not hit the nerve. I am back at it again I just got new implants and this time I made sure the dentist and oral surgeon were well trained. There are risks involved you just need to make sure when you go down this path that you select a well trained dentist/oral surgeon. Don't go cheap instead spend the extra money. |
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mcgovnor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Posts: 2607 Location: ny ny
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:18 am Post subject: My |
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Surgery was on upper not lower. |
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Sustained note Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Oct 2004 Posts: 643 Location: Givat Shmuel, Israel
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:35 am Post subject: |
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I had the whole upper jaw implanted: 10 implants (I think you call these posts), 4 in front & 3 each side. Finished in March this year and it took over a year. I had upper false teeth till March and almost couldn't play so I moved myself to 3rd trumpet at the band, for the duration.
Once the long work is completed it takes time to come back but this is natural and one must be patient. It'll come back.
I have a great dentist and a great maxillofacial surgeon.
Their work is top notch and I'm very happy with it.
Funny, my dentist is our principal trumpet whom I've been sitting next to, all along. _________________ Michael Greenberg
Giv'at Shmuel
Israel
Trumpet: Schilke B1 (2005)
Mouthpiece: Schilke Soloiste MG1
(Marc Geujon) gold plated
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Keep a sense of humor. |
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connicalman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2007 Posts: 1668 Location: West Medford, MA
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:38 am Post subject: |
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Sustained note wrote: | I had the whole upper jaw implanted: 10 implants (I think you call these posts), 4 in front & 3 each side. Finished in March this year and it took over a year. I had upper false teeth till March and almost couldn't play so I moved myself to 3rd trumpet at the band, for the duration.
Once the long work is completed it takes time to come back but this is natural and one must be patient. It'll come back.
I have a great dentist and a great maxillofacial surgeon.
Their work is top notch and I'm very happy with it.
Funny, my dentist is our principal trumpet whom I've been sitting next to, all along. |
now THAT is funny! Good luck with your progress. _________________ kochaavim, csillaagkep, αστερρισμός, konnstelacji, connstellation... ...a.k.a. the 28A!
Other Conns: Victor 5A & 38A, New Wonder & 80A; 'stella 38A; 36A; 'quest 76A... |
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Sustained note Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Oct 2004 Posts: 643 Location: Givat Shmuel, Israel
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:10 am Post subject: |
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Thank you _________________ Michael Greenberg
Giv'at Shmuel
Israel
Trumpet: Schilke B1 (2005)
Mouthpiece: Schilke Soloiste MG1
(Marc Geujon) gold plated
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Keep a sense of humor. |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:48 am Post subject: |
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To all of you that have suffered through these problems: my sincere empathy goes to you.
To the OP: Given that your retainer completely covers your front teeth and therefore, any playing and development you do now will basically get thrown out the window anyway when you are done with the retainer and your embouchure setting therefore gets drastically changed, I suggest you stay off the trumpet for the duration of the treatments and surgeries and let your oral area have a break and heal as quickly as possible. Your idea and choice to play percussion, piano and study music theory is excellent and shows you have a great, positive attitude.
Remember, this situation is temporary. Get what needs to be done with your mouth done, give yourself time to heal completely, and then start playing again. You'll be fine.
When you are ready to return to playing, you get a credit for 3 Skype lessons with me if you want them (a $225 value) in order to get started back up on a good, correct path of playing development (this offer stands for anyone with similar circumstances - occasionally - very occasionally - I like to "give back").
Best wishes,
John Mohan
Webcam Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button if interested
P.S. I see you are from Kalispell - three of my kids live in Missoula and I love Montana - so your credit just rose to four free lessons. _________________ Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student |
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lakejw Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Jan 2010 Posts: 543 Location: Brooklyn, New York
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:56 am Post subject: Re: it |
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mcgovnor wrote: | Well, here goes. It's a nightmare. I began the process a few years ago. Sinus lift etc. Two weeks following, I was numb on the left side of my upper lip. One post was removed. The feeling slowly returned about 85% and I adapted. Meanwhile I am absolutely frightened to continue, so I'm missing 3 teeth on the left side. Front are ok thank God. One implant on right side is ok. A trombonist friend was in the process when, in the chair, a searing pain shot across the left side of his mouth. He was a working orchestral player. Hasn't played since. Proceed at your own risk. |
That is some genuinely scary stuff. Best of luck going forward. _________________ New Album "ensemble | in situ" on Bandcamp
johnlakejazz.com |
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lakejw Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Jan 2010 Posts: 543 Location: Brooklyn, New York
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:59 am Post subject: |
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On a related note, has anyone here tried Invisalign as an adult player? I have a slight overlap on my lateral incisor, and I think it could help relieve pressure on that one part of my top lip if I was playing on a "flat surface" so to speak. _________________ New Album "ensemble | in situ" on Bandcamp
johnlakejazz.com |
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GordonH Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2002 Posts: 2893 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:46 am Post subject: |
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I had an implant done last year and had the various parts of the treatment scheduled round brass band concerts and contests. My dentist also used non disolvable stitches to allow me to get back to playing sooner. I had a week or so off after each part of the treatment. He would not do the treatment until he could get a clear x-ray of my nerves in the jaw. If he had not been able to get this he would have sent me for a CT scan.
I am not sure I would get another implant. I found it too disruptive. This was the big lower left 6 molar so it was a big gap. Getting it filled in made a huge difference to my articulation. My compression seems to be better too. I did not realise how big an effect the gap was having till it got closed. It was worth it for this but maybe not for another. If I lost a front tooth I am not sure what I would do. I know a tuba player who had a front tooth implant and it was very successful.
(I could not get a bridge fitted because my teeth either side have no fillings and a Maryland bridge would not have stuck in properly with the pressure of the big molar). _________________ Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.
Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM |
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returningplayer Regular Member
Joined: 13 Feb 2015 Posts: 19
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:04 pm Post subject: My experience |
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Hello All,
I thought I might post about my experience, now that I am on this side of things, for those who may be planning for implants. I had two teeth removed - the left of my middle upper front teeth, and the eye tooth closest to it, and replaced with implants. The long story short is that my case was not straightforward, and involved four surgeries. I was without those teeth for 14 months, and had the implants crowned the first week of this year.
For John Lake - I had an Invisalign retainer during the 14 months that had two artificial teeth glued in where mine were missing, and it was not possible for me to play the trumpet in any way that came close to being a satisfying experience. And, of course, there was no playing at all without the teeth. So I agree with John Mohan in this area - laying off the trumpet during the entire process was the best course of action in my case. And while John is fresh in mind, I note his very generous offer for those in my situation. Fortunately, I won't need to take you up on it, but thank you nonetheless!
I started playing again in mid-January, and the wonderful thing was that my dentist replicated the contours of my original teeth perfectly, so there was no adjustment other than having to take things slowly after the long layoff. However, after 8 weeks or so, I was shocked to see my range return to where it had been! I had spent the better part of 2 years prior to the implants deliberately extending my range (it was a bucket list item, which I am very glad I did, because it is also a lasting item.) My endurance still leaves a lot to be desired, but that will improve with time. The key is what everyone would share - not over blowing, playing quietly and musically, and ratcheting things up one small step at a time.
So there you have it - although I had a much longer time away than I expected, I did not wind up needing to consult with those wiser than me for implant-induced woes. Thanks are still due to Pops McLaughlin and Jon Ruff for their wise advice and willingness to help me in the planning for the implants.
My summary: Be prepared to lay off the trumpet for longer than planned. Consult with those in the know, and put recovery plans in place for any issues that arise with the implants. Return to playing the usual way - slowly, deliberately, and in a planned fashion. And most importantly, enjoy! |
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Irving Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1888
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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For those of you that have gone through having implants, I would like to know in which stage does the "recovery" take place. After having the tooth initially extracted? Waiting for the bone to heal? Having the actual implants put in? Waiting again for the implants and bone to meld together? Which is the most difficult stage when I won't be able to play. In my case, I will need to have a first molar implanted. |
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lipshurt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 2642 Location: vista ca
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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I had one implant, lower 5th tooth from center, whatever that number tooth is.
I had to take one week off when they implanted the stud into the jaw bone. That hurt a lot more than i was expecting by the way. But after a week (thanksgiving week) i went back to playing with zero issues for then until the whole thing was done. Never had to take any days off, and zero issues with playing. Its just like a regular tooth _________________ Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt |
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GordonH Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2002 Posts: 2893 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
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Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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lipshurt wrote: | I had one implant, lower 5th tooth from center, whatever that number tooth is.
I had to take one week off when they implanted the stud into the jaw bone. That hurt a lot more than i was expecting by the way. But after a week (thanksgiving week) i went back to playing with zero issues for then until the whole thing was done. Never had to take any days off, and zero issues with playing. Its just like a regular tooth |
I scheduled my stages of surgery around various brass band contests.
I had the extraction done and took a week or so off. Then gradually back in.
Then I had the initial drilling of the bone and a bone graft followed by about two weeks off.
Then opened up slightly again a good while later to have temporary shaper put in so another five days off followed by a week or so with the shaper in.
Then I had the crown and post screwed in.
Overall it was nine months but only about four weeks off.
My stitches were non disolvable which meant I didn't have to take quite as long off. _________________ Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.
Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: My experience |
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returningplayer wrote: | Hello All,
I thought I might post about my experience, now that I am on this side of things, for those who may be planning for implants. I had two teeth removed - the left of my middle upper front teeth, and the eye tooth closest to it, and replaced with implants. The long story short is that my case was not straightforward, and involved four surgeries. I was without those teeth for 14 months, and had the implants crowned the first week of this year.
For John Lake - I had an Invisalign retainer during the 14 months that had two artificial teeth glued in where mine were missing, and it was not possible for me to play the trumpet in any way that came close to being a satisfying experience. And, of course, there was no playing at all without the teeth. So I agree with John Mohan in this area - laying off the trumpet during the entire process was the best course of action in my case. And while John is fresh in mind, I note his very generous offer for those in my situation. Fortunately, I won't need to take you up on it, but thank you nonetheless!
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Just to share, I'm around 6 months post top-front tooth extraction/bone&tissue grafting, and with Invisaligns. I just got cleared by my Periodontist to resume playing. Attempts to play without the trays was discouraging. This morning I decided to give it a shot with the trays and I was pleasantly surprised that I can play. Needless to say, it's going to be a while to see if I can get back to my former (relative) glory, but I'm hopeful.
FWIW I'm reasonably happy with my choice of dentist, periodontist and orthodontist. I could see this going much worse if they weren't both individually outstanding and willing to work with each other. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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Harry Hilgers Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2015 Posts: 637
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Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: My experience |
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cheiden wrote: | returningplayer wrote: | Hello All,
I thought I might post about my experience, now that I am on this side of things, for those who may be planning for implants. I had two teeth removed - the left of my middle upper front teeth, and the eye tooth closest to it, and replaced with implants. The long story short is that my case was not straightforward, and involved four surgeries. I was without those teeth for 14 months, and had the implants crowned the first week of this year.
For John Lake - I had an Invisalign retainer during the 14 months that had two artificial teeth glued in where mine were missing, and it was not possible for me to play the trumpet in any way that came close to being a satisfying experience. And, of course, there was no playing at all without the teeth. So I agree with John Mohan in this area - laying off the trumpet during the entire process was the best course of action in my case. And while John is fresh in mind, I note his very generous offer for those in my situation. Fortunately, I won't need to take you up on it, but thank you nonetheless!
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Just to share, I'm around 6 months post top-front tooth extraction/bone&tissue grafting, and with Invisaligns. I just got cleared by my Periodontist to resume playing. Attempts to play without the trays was discouraging. This morning I decided to give it a shot with the trays and I was pleasantly surprised that I can play. Needless to say, it's going to be a while to see if I can get back to my former (relative) glory, but I'm hopeful.
FWIW I'm reasonably happy with my choice of dentist, periodontist and orthodontist. I could see this going much worse if they weren't both individually outstanding and willing to work with each other. |
After reading all these different dental-issues posts, I promise I will never ever complain again about my teeth (or lack thereof), dentures, etc.
Even though I have had my share of teeth issues but they have been nothing like what you guys are going through.
The worst that ever happened to me is that my upper denture popped loose during an upper register solo. Suddenly no sound. Fortunately this was during a rehearsal. A bit mote denture glue prior to the concert took care of things.
Best of luck to all of you.
Cheers
Harry |
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Brassman64 New Member
Joined: 01 Apr 2019 Posts: 9
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Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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I have a bone graft on my lower right side to repair loss from a bad wisdom tooth extraction in my teens.My molar on my bottom right side died and has been removed.There is a big gap but it doesn't effect my embouchure.My concern is that playing might cause the graft to fail,and so I'm taking the necessary time off. |
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