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BenH Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Aug 2007 Posts: 848 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:19 am Post subject: Re: spit valve |
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junkyt wrote: | Good information! We're slowly but surely filling in the gaps.
I have what I think is a 70's 2155 model, but with a twist. The main spit valve, rather than point up toward the bell, is on the bottom of the pipe, pointing back toward the mouthpiece.
Anyone come across one of these before? |
One of Tom Harrell's is set up like this; you can see when he switches to flug for Body and Soul.
https://youtu.be/FNT8SQgY9ds _________________ Schilke B1
Couesnon flugelhorn |
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iiipopes Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2015 Posts: 560
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:14 am Post subject: |
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BenH wrote: | The GR pipe only inserts about an inch, so it's way flat. If it was trimmed there would be no scope for tuning.
No photos at the moment, but the pipes are the same length (I measured the original one as per instructions). The original is dented but I don't believe that's related; although I haven't had the outer pipe scoped, I have shone a flashlight down it and there's a visible ridge all the way around. The internal diameter suddenly decreases about an inch in, but there's no sign from the outside that this happens. |
Well, that's beyond me. I was wondering if it were down closer to the ferrule that joins the outer lead pipe to the valve block. Not so. I have not heard of anything like that, either, in any brass instrument, outside of damage to the leadpipe. It is time to sing the brass player's tune to the melody of the William Tell Overture: "To the tech, to the tech, to the tech, tech, tech!" _________________ King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet |
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BenH Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Aug 2007 Posts: 848 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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iiofiiipopes wrote: | It is time to sing the brass player's tune to the melody of the William Tell Overture: "To the tech, to the tech, to the tech, tech, tech!" |
Ha! Indeed. It's going in on Thursday.
What are the implications (anyone) of replacing the outer pipe with one that would accommodate the GR/Melk leadpipe? Is it going to have any noticeable affect on the playing characteristics or the sound? Also, what would be a likely candidate? I'm thinking maybe a Shew as that was based on a Queenie, but one from a different era I think, so all bets appear to be off...! _________________ Schilke B1
Couesnon flugelhorn |
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Uberopa Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Dec 2003 Posts: 934 Location: Canada
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
My Couesnon flugelhorn was playing quite flat with the original pipe or with a GR pipe. Based on suggestions from this forum I sent the horn to Charlie Melk. He got back to me promptly and was quite familiar with the problem. The fix was quite reasonably priced too. I would suggest boxing up the horn and sending it to him.
He will most likely to be familiar with it and can recommend the best solution.
Brian |
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BenH Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Aug 2007 Posts: 848 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:09 am Post subject: |
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So here's a photo of the issue. You should be able to see that there's a step down in diameter. It's really odd. The smaller diameter appears necessary to hold the original pipe securely but then, what's the point of an inch of larger diameter?! Like I said, no signs externally that that happens.
_________________ Schilke B1
Couesnon flugelhorn |
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FrankM Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2011 Posts: 545 Location: Lincolnshire England
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:21 am Post subject: |
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Looks like the 1st valve is out of alignment. Does it need a thinner top pad?
Cheers, Frank _________________ Fairly large collection. Favourites:-
Eclipse Bb Tpt
Yamaha 6335H Bb Tpt
Besson Meha Bb Tpt
Selmer 99 Radial
Conn Connstelation 36B
Conn Connstelation 28A
B&H Sovereign Cornet
Yamaha 635T Flugel Horn. |
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BenH Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Aug 2007 Posts: 848 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:23 am Post subject: |
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FrankM wrote: | Looks like the 1st valve is out of alignment. Does it need a thinner top pad?
Cheers, Frank |
Yes, it needs a full set of new pads, and will be getting them very soon. _________________ Schilke B1
Couesnon flugelhorn |
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adagiotrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 915
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 8:31 am Post subject: Re: spit valve |
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BenH wrote: | junkyt wrote: | Good information! We're slowly but surely filling in the gaps.
I have what I think is a 70's 2155 model, but with a twist. The main spit valve, rather than point up toward the bell, is on the bottom of the pipe, pointing back toward the mouthpiece.
Anyone come across one of these before? |
One of Tom Harrell's is set up like this; you can see when he switches to flug for Body and Soul.
https://youtu.be/FNT8SQgY9ds |
My horn has the same main water key, detailed finger buttons, and COUESNON logo on the bell. |
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trumpet173 New Member
Joined: 30 Oct 2015 Posts: 1 Location: Eugene, OR
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Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:32 am Post subject: My Q |
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Good thread, and I feel like I should chime in as my flugel for the last 15 years is a Couesnon from 1923 (according to the pineapple grenade).
I have a new flugel coming my way and I've been toying with the idea of selling my Couesnon... I've had multiple people interested and I'm getting offers above my asking price. It's starting to make me second guess my decision. Am I gonna miss it? If I hang onto it for a few more years it'll be 100 years. My wife is telling me I should just hang onto it although I can't see playing it much with the new horn I'm about to get. But who knows... It is cool to have a piece of history.... I digress
Play on! |
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Edwin Jacob Regular Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2016 Posts: 57 Location: Radcliff, Kentucky
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:15 pm Post subject: Couesnon flugelhorn "X" |
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777 wrote: | My Couesnon says this on the bell;
COUESNON
PARIS
76xxx
MADE IN FRANCE
On the second valve, on the right side, bottom, there's an;
X
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What does the letter on the 2nd valve casing of a Couesnon flugelhorn mean?
Is that a model number?
Voltrane speculates on page 2 of this thread, but it would be nice if someone could give a definitive answer.
Edwin Jacob |
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iiipopes Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2015 Posts: 560
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:02 am Post subject: Re: Couesnon flugelhorn "X" |
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Edwin Jacob wrote: | What does the letter on the 2nd valve casing of a Couesnon flugelhorn mean?
Is that a model number?
Voltrane speculates on page 2 of this thread, but it would be nice if someone could give a definitive answer.
Edwin Jacob |
Speculation is about all there is, due to the two fires that destroyed all the records, although somewhere in the middle of this thread is some discussion about that being an initial or marking by someone in final assembly or quality control.
The letter stamped on the second valve casing is definitely not a model number. Aside from any engraving on the bell that might indicate a particular horn to be a "Monopole" or "Conservertoire" model, on some older horns there is a number stamped in the collar of the receiver of the leadpipe. Also further up in the thread are postings of pix of old catalog pages that list model numbers that may correlate to that stamping. _________________ King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet |
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marbalgo New Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2014 Posts: 10
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Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: Couesnon flugelhorn "X" |
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Edwin Jacob wrote: | 777 wrote: | My Couesnon says this on the bell;
COUESNON
PARIS
76xxx
MADE IN FRANCE
On the second valve, on the right side, bottom, there's an;
X
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What does the letter on the 2nd valve casing of a Couesnon flugelhorn mean?
Is that a model number?
Voltrane speculates on page 2 of this thread, but it would be nice if someone could give a definitive answer.
Edwin Jacob |
From another entry of "Voltrane" user on this forum:
The letter on the second valve is the initial letter of the name of the person who was responsible of the “chemise”(the tube where you insert the valves, translated by my Harraps dictionnary as “sleeves”), so that the quality control could give them a “mark” to assess the quality of their work.
M. Rault added that this is a “tradition” (at least in France) among the “pistonniers” (the guys making the valves and the valve block) to engrave their initial letter on the “chemise” (to identify their work). Himself and his apprentices are still doing this on the horns they make (at PGM Couesnon).
Regarding the number on the leadpipe, PGM Couesnon told me it is the model number (of the leadpipe).
Regarding the pineapple (in French "la grenade") it is the year of making. |
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gstump Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2006 Posts: 934
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Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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Bought it in 1967 at Peppys in NYC $125 including a bomb proof Naugahyde bag.
Couesnon
PARIS
Made in France
63242
B on 2nd valve casing
This is "that"sound horn. Recorded many records and jingles on this great Flugelhorn. _________________ Schilke B5
Couesnon Flug (1967)
Funk Brothers Horn Section/Caruso Student |
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FujiiFilm Veteran Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2009 Posts: 201 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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Apologies for bringing back an older thread, but I recently acquired a used Couesnon flugel with the original tag and mouthpiece for $200 (original case was unfortunately an unusable wreck, so it went into the garbage), and wanted to add the info to the growing database here, along with my Selmer Signet, which from what I understand is a Couesnon stencil produced for Selmer.
Couesnon: Model 2155 from original tag
COUESNON (w/ large letter C and C shaped pinky ring)
PARIS
MADE IN FRANCE
790XX
"N" on 2nd valve casing, "47", "Bb" and "A" stamped on leadpipe receiver (nothing stamped on tuning shank itself), 1, 2, 3 stamped on the corresponding valve casings
Signet:
"Signet" engraved on bell
Serial # 35XX stamped on 2nd valve casing
"P" stamped on 2nd valve casing"7" stamped on leadpipe receiver (nothing stamped on tuning shank itself), 1, 2, 3 stamped on the corresponding valve casings _________________ "A high IQ doesn't make up for a lack of common sense."
1937 H.N. White King Silvertone Cornet
Selmer Signet Flugelhorn
1941 Olds Special Trombone |
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mograph Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Feb 2020 Posts: 144
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Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:22 am Post subject: |
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Respect for the skills on the forum, all.
Just thought I'd add my Queenie data:
B-flat flugelhorn
Bought in 1979 for $295 CAD at Long & McQuade Toronto, with hard black case (lime green furry inside!) & Bach 7C flugel MP ... wrong shank, though!
Stamped on the bell: COUESNON PARIS 78637 MADE IN FRANCE
No grenade/pineapple.
Stamped on 2nd valve, right side: B
Scratched on 2nd valve, left side: 140
1, 2, 3 stamped on the respective valve casings, left side.
Nothing on leadpipe or receiver.
Finger hook seems formed, not cast.
Currently using Curry 3CFL-F mouthpiece with correct French shank.
Cleaned & piston ports aligned by Ron Partch, Toronto.
Sweet sound. _________________ 1985 Bach 37
1980 King 601 (it's bulletproof!)
1978 Couesnon flugelhorn
Playing for fun since 1979.
Fmr member 48th Highlanders of Canada Mil Band
Into that jazz devil music |
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Iko iko Regular Member
Joined: 31 Mar 2019 Posts: 11
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Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:47 am Post subject: |
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I'm joining the Couesnon family too! Here's my horn data:
Bb flugelhorn
Built in 1968 circa, bought in 2018 with a hard black case (blue furry inside)
Stamped on the bell:
COUESNON PARIS 74876 MADE IN FRANCE
No grenade/pineapple.
Stamped on 2nd valve, right side: B
1, 2, 3 stamped on the respective valve casings, left side.
Stamped on the receiver: H 4 71
C-shaped finger hook
Any information will be helpful, thanks! _________________ Trumpets: Bb Yamaha 8310z Bobby Shew, Bb Bach 37 ML Stradivarius, Bb King Golden Flair, C Getzen Renaissance
Flugelhorn: 1968 Couesnon Paris
Mouthpieces: Bach 5C, Holton Heim 1 & 2, Schilke 16C2
Instagram: enricocaniato |
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dstpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1289
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Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:11 am Post subject: |
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FYI, a google search for "Couesnon flugelhorn serial numbers" brings up this result...
http://www.brasshistory.net/Couesnon%20Dating%20List.pdf
...for anyone that may be interested. The enthusiasts out there may want to copy the contents onto their own computer, since websites come and go. |
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Iko iko Regular Member
Joined: 31 Mar 2019 Posts: 11
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Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:54 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for sharing. I found my instrument on that list which is a curious thing! _________________ Trumpets: Bb Yamaha 8310z Bobby Shew, Bb Bach 37 ML Stradivarius, Bb King Golden Flair, C Getzen Renaissance
Flugelhorn: 1968 Couesnon Paris
Mouthpieces: Bach 5C, Holton Heim 1 & 2, Schilke 16C2
Instagram: enricocaniato |
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loil Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Posts: 335 Location: Marseille - France
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Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 2:57 am Post subject: |
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Just got a new one
stamped
COUESNON
PARIS
made in france
82***
A on 2nd valve
My guess is a 1973 or so born horn.
What u think?
Iconic sound BTW. _________________ C. LeLoiL
http://christopheleloil.com/
1969 Connstellation 38B
1977 Martin Committee
197* Couesnon Flugel
DONAT mpcs exclusively |
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trpthrld Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 4818
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