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Brap-Brap Regular Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2015 Posts: 26 Location: Columbus, OH
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Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:13 pm Post subject: Pixie mute help |
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Hey guys!
I just got a H&B pixie mute, and its not sounding like it does on the official H&B recordings or other user trials. To me (Behind the horn) it sounds and feels like my Harmon triple play straight mute. In the recordings on YouTube I hear a little buzz and it brightens up the sound of the horn.
I've read some things on here about removing the inner tube and filing the corks. How much mute should be sticking out from the bell?
Here is an example of what I thought it should sound like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0w_qeTCqiw
(Skip to 3:50 to hear what i'm talking about)
I will try to get a recording of myself up soon.
Thanks guys! _________________ "You gotta swing man..." - My band director Mark Donavan |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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The pixies I've tried have corks that are much too thick, probably a good deal more than 0.25". And while I confess that I've yet to adjust my corks, I suspect that I'll need to take them down by half. Look how thin the corks are in the video you posted.
I think it matters less how much of the mute sticks out of the bell and more about how close the gap from the mute to the bell either in the area near the corks or possibly the widest part of the mute. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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trpthrld Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 4810
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Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: Pixie mute help |
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Brap-Brap wrote: | I just got a H&B pixie mute, and its not sounding like it does on the official H&B recordings or other user trials. |
And it never will.
I tried probably every adjustment and alteration to both H&B pixie & several old Conn mutes (usually around $20-$25 on eBay) and never, ever came close to getting a mute that played in tune, that had a sound that was authentic, or that responded well in all registers. I've trashed maybe 8 or 9 mutes over the years with experimenting.
But what I have found and that works REALLY well is the Denis Wick straight mute for Eb/D trumpet. Works so well that after I told Kenny Rampton about it (he, too, posted on TH about searching for a good pixie mute) that not too long after that he told me the entire JACL section was using that mute.
All I can suggest is try it. I think you'll be pleased with the results. Hpefully you'll be able to return the H&B pixie for a full refund. _________________ Tim Wendt
www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=146827&s=The-Best-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-EVER--
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPWAJqghk24&feature=youtu.be |
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trpthrld Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 4810
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Brap-Brap Regular Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2015 Posts: 26 Location: Columbus, OH
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Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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I just filed the corks down to 5mm, they came around 8-9mm and it's sounding better, but not 100% where I want it to be.
What about the inner tube? Should I take that out? People on here have said it gives you more volume, but will taking it out give me more buzz? I'm thinking its like a Harmon where putting the stem in dampens the buzz and makes it brighter, but taking out the stem gives you more buzz.
https://youtu.be/ahTlWWTMx_g
Thats the recording of it. Please note i'm only a junior in HS and i'm not that good. This is just noodling and I just got home from practice with my little combo band, so i'm pretty wore out.
trpthrld wrote: | But what I have found and that works REALLY well is the Denis Wick straight mute for Eb/D trumpet. |
Really? Your joking right?
Are you talking about this?:
http://www.amazon.com/Denis-Wick-DW5520-Straight-Trumpet/dp/B000YH5A2W
I will save up, buy the Denis Wick and see which one I like.
On a side note, how the heck do you embed YT links? _________________ "You gotta swing man..." - My band director Mark Donavan
Last edited by Brap-Brap on Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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trpthrld Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 4810
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Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Brap-Brap wrote: | I just filed the corks down to 5mm, they came around 8-9mm and it's sounding better, but not 100% where I want it to be.
What about the inner tube? Should I take that out? People on here have said it gives you more volume, but will taking it out give me more buzz? I'm thinking its like a Harmon where putting the stem in dampens the buzz and makes it brighter, but taking out the stem gives you more buzz. |
These are some of the many things I tried, all to no avail.
trpthrld wrote: | But what I have found and that works REALLY well is the Denis Wick straight mute for Eb/D trumpet. |
Brap-Brap wrote: | Really? Your joking right? |
No, Sir, I am not joking. I'm dead serious.
Yep, that's the one. I didn't need to file the corks or anything for it to fit in my Bb bell and give me the desired results.
That's also a pretty good price.
Brap-Brap wrote: | I will save up, buy the Denis Wick and see which one I like. |
I think you'll be very happily surprised. _________________ Tim Wendt
www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=146827&s=The-Best-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-EVER--
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPWAJqghk24&feature=youtu.be |
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Brap-Brap Regular Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2015 Posts: 26 Location: Columbus, OH
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Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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trpthrld wrote: | Brap-Brap wrote: | I just filed the corks down to 5mm, they came around 8-9mm and it's sounding better, but not 100% where I want it to be.
What about the inner tube? Should I take that out? People on here have said it gives you more volume, but will taking it out give me more buzz? I'm thinking its like a Harmon where putting the stem in dampens the buzz and makes it brighter, but taking out the stem gives you more buzz. |
These are some of the many things I tried, all to no avail.
trpthrld wrote: | But what I have found and that works REALLY well is the Denis Wick straight mute for Eb/D trumpet. |
Brap-Brap wrote: | Really? Your joking right? |
No, Sir, I am not joking. I'm dead serious.
Yep, that's the one. I didn't need to file the corks or anything for it to fit in my Bb bell and give me the desired results.
That's also a pretty good price.
Brap-Brap wrote: | I will save up, buy the Denis Wick and see which one I like. |
I think you'll be very happily surprised. |
I just posted a link to a YT video I just uploaded, tell me what you think.
EDIT: I just removed the inner stem, and HOLY CRAPERONI does it sound good! So much tinny sound and buzz! New video to come soon. _________________ "You gotta swing man..." - My band director Mark Donavan |
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trpthrld Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 4810
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Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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I did a quick vid comparing the Denis Wick D/Eb straight mute and an old Conn small metal mute, like what has been talked about in this thread.
And before you purists chime in - yes, I am well aware that the opening solo in "Chicago" does not use a pixie mute. I've subbed on the B'way production so I know that quite well.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdGDvkRFMkU
I'd like to add that when you do any kind of demo vid and more importantly, when you try out new equipment, from my experience you'll get a much better comparison if you play the exact same thing on each option. A scale or two, a short excerpt or few measures from a tune - that kind of thing will give you a much better sampling to compare with vs rambling random notes with no direction.
For example - if you're trying out horns, it's much easier and quicker to weed out the horns that obviously won't work for you using the method I described. After you've narrowed the field down, then go crazy & see what the limitations (if any) are.
I tried to imbed the video. Apparently this is yet another time when the computer shows it's smarter than I am...which really isn't that much of a victory to begin with.
Anyway - hope this helps! _________________ Tim Wendt
www.trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=146827&s=The-Best-Trumpet-Lead-Pipe-Swab-EVER--
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPWAJqghk24&feature=youtu.be |
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Turkle Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
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Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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trpthrld wrote: | I did a quick vid comparing the Denis Wick D/Eb straight mute and an old Conn small metal mute, like what has been talked about in this thread.
Anyway - hope this helps! |
This is super helpful, thanks!! Looks like I have more gear to buy... _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3. |
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Oncewasaplayer Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Sep 2007 Posts: 974
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Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, helpful to hear these mutes side by side. Thanks for the posting, Tim.
paul _________________ Getzen 800DLX cornet
Selmer Sigma trumpet |
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trpthrld Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 4810
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DoubleEagle Regular Member
Joined: 28 Aug 2015 Posts: 95 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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I have an ancient H&B pixie. I was never able to get a good sound out of it as a mute years ago, though recently I replaced the corks and filed them down again. It does OK for tuning on the low end now, but just barely. It really doesn't have a great sound tho. Maybe the metal is too thick to get the buzz of an aluminum mute.
I bought this back in the 60s when they used Al Hirt as part of the marketing. It had a little chip out of it, so I stripped off all the paint. Interestingly, it has a copper body with a yellow brass bottom. I get that their colors are red & white, but I think it's much prettier and certainly more stylish in metal. I shot it with a coat of lacquer so it stays looking nice, but I don't use it. I have not cut out the center tube. It looks to be metal and soldered in.
The Conn mutes do show up on eBay from time to time. I've seen them, so they aren't rare exactly. I think the Wick sounds interesting, but I wonder how far out it sticks. The torpedo mute in the video sounds neat. I wonder how many of those are out there. _________________ Benge CG, Early '70s Selmer piccolo, Early '80s Selmer piccolo, Conn 12A cornet, Conn 38A cornet, Conn 48A Connqueror "Vocabell", Conn Connquest 76A cornet, Conn Director 17A Coprion cornet, Conn Director 15A cornet, '50 Olds valve/slide trombone |
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Mike Sailors Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Oct 2012 Posts: 1838 Location: Austin/New York City
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Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | But what I have found and that works REALLY well is the Denis Wick straight mute for Eb/D trumpet. Works so well that after I told Kenny Rampton about it (he, too, posted on TH about searching for a good pixie mute) that not too long after that he told me the entire JACL section was using that mute.
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This is what I use, and yea, if you want an authentic pixie sound with a modern mute that also plays well, you'd be better off taking Tim's advice.
The modern pixie's flat-out suck. They're unplayable as far as I'm concerned. _________________ www.mikesailors.com |
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trpthrld Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2007 Posts: 4810
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2416 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:18 am Post subject: |
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trpthrld wrote: | I did a quick vid comparing the Denis Wick D/Eb straight mute and an old Conn small metal mute, like what has been talked about in this thread.
And before you purists chime in - yes, I am well aware that the opening solo in "Chicago" does not use a pixie mute. I've subbed on the B'way production so I know that quite well.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdGDvkRFMkU |
Amazon Prime is now sold out. (Although they're available from other suppliers through Amazon.) I hope DW is sending Tim a "thank you" for the additional business.
For the OP, here's my experience with the H&B Pixie mute. I purchased one a couple years ago. Below the staff, all of the notes were out of tune and/or choked off. I began incrementally shaving down the corks, trying to improve the intonation. Eventually, I ran out of cork ... it was still out of tune. It now sits on my shelf collecting dust.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:24 am Post subject: |
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Not to be too pointy, but I'm not a big fan of the Wick mutes and I much prefer the JoRal and Trumcor. I'm not seeing an Eb from JoRal but Trumcor offers one. I'd be curious to know if they work as well or better.
http://www.trumcor.com/product/eb-trumpet-straight _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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stephan Veteran Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 254 Location: France
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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Almost as good as the famous Renuzit mute! _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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bixtone Veteran Member
Joined: 04 May 2007 Posts: 162
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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I spend a lot of time trying to play like Cootie Williams, Bubber Miley and Rex Stewart, with both vintage and modern Pixie-type mutes. My favorite modern one is this:
http://www.hornguys.com/products/best-brass-straight-mini-mute-for-trumpet
Intonation is just about the best of any straight mute I've used, and works great with a plunger. _________________ Besson MEHA
NY Bach
Shires |
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reedman1 Regular Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2013 Posts: 76 Location: Cold Spring, NY
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Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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The Best Brass Straight Mini is pretty good. http://www.bestbrass.com/stf/straight_mini.html. It barely protrudes from the bell at all. It's pretty expensive, though. _________________ All the instruments of joy... |
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