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botahoratiu Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2010 Posts: 390 Location: Medias, Romania
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Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:49 am Post subject: Schilke B1 vs Connstellation 38B |
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Hi
I recently acquired a Conn Connstellation 38B from 1968-1969 in very nice condition, which made me change my mind ... before that, I thought that my Schilke B1 is the best horn ever built with the best sound in the world (don't want to start any fight here, I know it's not that way... buy, you know it ... every one of us has it's own favorite). Anyway, the Conn blew my mind in terms of sound and playability. It sounds just incredibly! And it projects much better and easier, it really is amazing!
The question is: which one to keep? I know it's a personal choice, but what would you do? I can't afford keeping both, that's for sure. Could it be some honeymoon period with the Conn? The only drawback of the Conn is the trigger, which I am not used to (yet).
p.s. isn't the Conn smaller in bore? it surely feels bigger to me. _________________ Getzen Eterna 900s
Yamaha Bobby Shew Lead |
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botahoratiu Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2010 Posts: 390 Location: Medias, Romania
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Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:52 am Post subject: |
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I forgot to mention that both have spot-on intonation (Conn has it close to perfect ... as good as a trumpet design can allow it) _________________ Getzen Eterna 900s
Yamaha Bobby Shew Lead |
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botahoratiu Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2010 Posts: 390 Location: Medias, Romania
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Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:56 am Post subject: |
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and one more thing ... the Connstellation came with a set of spare valves which seem to be some new old stock, maybe never used, so they could last a life time. The installed ones are also in close to new condition. Not to mention a superb NEW gold plated Connstellation 7B-N mouthpiece _________________ Getzen Eterna 900s
Yamaha Bobby Shew Lead |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8348 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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The Conn 38B has a smaller bore, something like 0.438 as opposed to the standard ML bore 0.460 of the Schilke.
Just goes to show that one shouldn't shop by spec and bore size is only one component of how the horn plays.
I've never seen a horn sold with extra valves. Curious...
Those older "Crysteel" Conn valves are very solid and durable in my experience. The ones I've seen look almost brand new to this day. I've got several abused Conn Directors in school inventories, and I've seen some 38B's and 28A's and have a 28B in the shop getting cleaned up. All have very nice, almost new looking valves.
Enjoy! _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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botahoratiu Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2010 Posts: 390 Location: Medias, Romania
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Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Crazy Finn wrote: | The Conn 38B has a smaller bore, something like 0.438 as opposed to the standard ML bore 0.460 of the Schilke.
Just goes to show that one shouldn't shop by spec and bore size is only one component of how the horn plays.
I've never seen a horn sold with extra valves. Curious...
Those older "Crysteel" Conn valves are very solid and durable in my experience. The ones I've seen look almost brand new to this day. I've got several abused Conn Directors in school inventories, and I've seen some 38B's and 28A's and have a 28B in the shop getting cleaned up. All have very nice, almost new looking valves.
Enjoy! |
That's the case also with my valves: they are still like new. However, it came with a set of spare valves. Great, isn't it? _________________ Getzen Eterna 900s
Yamaha Bobby Shew Lead |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8348 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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botahoratiu wrote: | Crazy Finn wrote: | The Conn 38B has a smaller bore, something like 0.438 as opposed to the standard ML bore 0.460 of the Schilke.
Just goes to show that one shouldn't shop by spec and bore size is only one component of how the horn plays.
I've never seen a horn sold with extra valves. Curious...
Those older "Crysteel" Conn valves are very solid and durable in my experience. The ones I've seen look almost brand new to this day. I've got several abused Conn Directors in school inventories, and I've seen some 38B's and 28A's and have a 28B in the shop getting cleaned up. All have very nice, almost new looking valves.
Enjoy! |
That's the case also with my valves: they are still like new. However, it came with a set of spare valves. Great, isn't it? |
Extra or spare is rarely bad... _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9193 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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Regarding the bore size, Finn, isn't there something about the design of the 38B regarding a tapering of the tubing as it goes through the horn that makes the actual, "functional" bore size, more than just a standard "small"?
@botahoratiu - I have a great Schilke (B7) and a Connstellation and if I had to chose one over the other, I'd choose the Conn because of the tone, although there certainly is nothing wrong with the Schilke. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Adams A-9 Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Getzen Capri Cornet (for sale). |
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gigolaw Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 200 Location: Puerto Rico
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Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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We are all different. Over the years I have tested a few Constellations and they were all complicated horns for me, specially in the transition to the high register. If the Constellation works better in terms of Sound, blow, etc, keep it and send me the Shilke B1... _________________ Schilke S42 with Reeves PVA
Schilke Flugelhorn
Calet Soloist C Trpt.
Curry 5DE trumpet mouthpiece
Giardinelli 7FL Flugel Mpc. |
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botahoratiu Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2010 Posts: 390 Location: Medias, Romania
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Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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gigolaw wrote: | We are all different. Over the years I have tested a few Constellations and they were all complicated horns for me, specially in the transition to the high register. If the Constellation works better in terms of Sound, blow, etc, keep it and send me the Shilke B1... |
What will you do with 2 B1s? _________________ Getzen Eterna 900s
Yamaha Bobby Shew Lead |
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HERMOKIWI Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2008 Posts: 2599
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Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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"Sound" is a very interesting topic. Two horns may sound different but which of the sounds is the better sound is a matter of opinion for which there can be, and typically is, considerable disagreement.
"Projection" is another interesting topic. How can you tell how well a horn "projects" by listening from the player's end of the horn? It would seem that at any given volume level the more feedback you get the less the horn "projects."
"Playability" is an interesting topic, too. "Playability" has a lot to do with personal preferences.
If there was one horn that really did have the best sound, projection and playability, wouldn't we all be playing it? The point is that these qualities are all typically evaluated by players on a highly personal and highly subjective basis.
If you feel that the Conn is superior to the Schilke as to sound, projection and playability and you can have only one horn, why would you even consider keeping the Schilke? This seems like a no-brainer to me. _________________ HERMOKIWI |
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botahoratiu Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2010 Posts: 390 Location: Medias, Romania
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:59 am Post subject: |
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Hermokiwi, you are right in all aspects.
As of sound, I think the Conn is more flexible.
By projection, I meant that I could here myself better over the band, but that is what you said... you are right, it's the feedback from the player.
By playability I meant it plays easier in all aspects.
Anyway, tge Schilke is a great horn which I am used to over years.
I am a bit confused _________________ Getzen Eterna 900s
Yamaha Bobby Shew Lead |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9193 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 2:10 am Post subject: |
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botahoratiu wrote: | What will you do with 2 B1s? |
Bomb Afghanistan? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Adams A-9 Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Getzen Capri Cornet (for sale). |
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Greenleaf Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 536
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:42 am Post subject: Re: Schilke B1 vs Connstellation 38B |
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botahoratiu wrote: | Hi
I recently acquired a Conn Connstellation 38B from 1968-1969 in very nice condition, which made me change my mind ... before that, I thought that my Schilke B1 . . .
The question is: which one to keep? . . . |
I say, "Keep them both." Two amazing horns! _________________
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delano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009 Posts: 3118 Location: The Netherlands
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 4:54 am Post subject: |
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With two horns like that you don't have to worry about a horn safari and maybe they are enough for not being bothered by the N+1 virus. |
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richardwy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Posts: 4308 Location: Casper, WY - The Gotham of the Prarie
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:03 am Post subject: |
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How about working with the Conn for 30 to 45 days? Decide what to do then.
Glad you like the 38B so well. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9193 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:15 am Post subject: |
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richardwy wrote: | How about working with the Conn for 30 to 45 days? Decide what to do then.
Glad you like the 38B so well. |
Yes, a great piece of advice I got when first trying mouthpieces or horns is, if when possible, keep the one you think you might be replacing so that you can have some time with both items to A/B them. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Adams A-9 Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Getzen Capri Cornet (for sale). |
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botahoratiu Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Jul 2010 Posts: 390 Location: Medias, Romania
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:17 am Post subject: |
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richardwy wrote: | How about working with the Conn for 30 to 45 days? Decide what to do then.
Glad you like the 38B so well. |
Not a bad idea.
How am I supposed to choose the best sound? Recording? Listener? _________________ Getzen Eterna 900s
Yamaha Bobby Shew Lead |
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oxleyk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 4181
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:49 am Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | botahoratiu wrote: | What will you do with 2 B1s? |
Bomb Afghanistan? |
I'll take US HEGEMONY for $600, Alex. |
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Seymor B Fudd Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2015 Posts: 1493 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 6:58 am Post subject: |
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richardwy wrote: | How about working with the Conn for 30 to 45 days? Decide what to do then.
Glad you like the 38B so well. |
Agree! Bought a V B cornet after testing all brands, canīt recall were as of now, Washington it was. Anyhow this VB was superior. Outstanding sound, ease of valves, easy high register as well as full low. Brought it back to Sweden, played in the band, slowly realizing I could not fill it..........
Finally completely exhausted borrowed an old Eterna and was I young and powerful again. Honeymoons are treacherous indeed _________________ Cornets: mp 143D3/ DW Ultra 1,5 C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Yamaha YCR6330II
Getzen Eterna Eb
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC Schilke 14B
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1974) |
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Mr.M Regular Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2013 Posts: 22 Location: Poland
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Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:01 am Post subject: |
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botahoratiu wrote: | richardwy wrote: | How about working with the Conn for 30 to 45 days? Decide what to do then.
Glad you like the 38B so well. |
Not a bad idea.
How am I supposed to choose the best sound? Recording? Listener? |
Ask someone you trust which one sounds better and test both on gigs/rehearsals ... if you decide to sell the conn let me know _________________ _____________________
Connstellaion 38B, 67' Silver Flair |
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