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IP Regular Member
Joined: 12 May 2016 Posts: 11
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 11:56 am Post subject: Sacred Cows |
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Hello TH
I have been lurking on the internet in many different types of forums for years.
Are there any sacred cows in the trumpet world who are deemed too important for their playing to be analyzed?
Trying to avoid trouble here. |
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gbdeamer Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2007 Posts: 2306
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: Sacred Cows |
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IP wrote: | Hello TH
I have been lurking on the internet in many different types of forums for years.
Are there any sacred cows in the trumpet world who are deemed too important for their playing to be analyzed?
Trying to avoid trouble here. |
Guess it depends on what you mean by "analyzed". _________________ 1987 Bach Strad 37
2005 Bach Strad 43*
ACB Doubler's Flugel
1948 Holton Model 48 |
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A.N.A.Mendez Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 5231 Location: ca.
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Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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No, I think Wynton should have stayed with classical too.......... _________________ "There is no necessity for deadly strife" A. Lincoln 1860
☛ "No matter how cynical you get, it's never enough to keep up" Lily Tomlin☚ |
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IP Regular Member
Joined: 12 May 2016 Posts: 11
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 1:56 am Post subject: |
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I guess that it is wait and see. I saw evidence the other day of some people's unwillingness to see through the Emperor's new clothes |
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Grits Burgh Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2015 Posts: 805 Location: South Carolina
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Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 4:46 am Post subject: |
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I'm relatively new to the site, but my impression is that there is no shortage of people who will say whatever comes to mind. Personally, I have no problem with commenting about anyone or anything, but respect and civility are important. Comments denigrating the likes of Wynton Marsalis or Maynard Ferguson tend to reflect poorly on the poster, but there seems to be no shortage of them. Opinions are just that. Opinions. Lack of civility, on the other hand, is in poor taste and has no place here. _________________ Bach Stradivarius 37 (1971)
Schilke HC 1
Getzen 3810 C Cornet
King Master Bb Cornet (1945)
B&S 3145 Challenger I Series Flugelhorn
Life is short; buy every horn you want and die happy.
Last edited by Grits Burgh on Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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BGinNJ Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 381
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Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:45 am Post subject: |
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There was a guy here by the name of a famous Star Trek character. Famous for being opinionated, argumentative, and ignorant. Very entertaining, and pissed off just about everybody until he was banned. One bad actor can make the whole environment toxic. |
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jjtrumpet Regular Member
Joined: 20 Oct 2015 Posts: 52
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Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:14 am Post subject: |
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I guess my two cents would be
1. No one is too sacred for analysis.
2. Don't be a jerk about it. |
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Edwin Jacob Regular Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2016 Posts: 57 Location: Radcliff, Kentucky
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Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: Sacred Cows |
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Scared cows?
When I was a kid, I spent a lot of time on my grandparents' farm.
Almost anything will scare a cow.
Just clap your hands and it will spook a cow.
Edwin Jacob |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12679 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: Sacred Cows |
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Edwin Jacob wrote: | Scared cows?
When I was a kid, I spent a lot of time on my grandparents' farm.
Almost anything will scare a cow.
Just clap your hands and it will spook a cow.
Edwin Jacob |
That is only because you were in the wrong country. In India where cows are sacred, they also aren't afraid of anything.
Unlike here where they are ever vigilant to avoid becoming dinner. |
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Edwin Jacob Regular Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2016 Posts: 57 Location: Radcliff, Kentucky
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Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Sacred Cows |
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LittleRusty wrote: | Edwin Jacob wrote: | Scared cows?
When I was a kid, I spent a lot of time on my grandparents' farm.
Almost anything will scare a cow.
Just clap your hands and it will spook a cow.
Edwin Jacob |
That is only because you were in the wrong country. In India where cows are sacred, they also aren't afraid of anything.
Unlike here where they are ever vigilant to avoid becoming dinner. |
I appreciate your multi-cultural insight which has enlightened me.
By coincidence, I am part Indian.
About 1 percent Mohawk.
Edwin Jacob |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12679 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: Sacred Cows |
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Edwin Jacob wrote: | LittleRusty wrote: | Edwin Jacob wrote: | Scared cows?
When I was a kid, I spent a lot of time on my grandparents' farm.
Almost anything will scare a cow.
Just clap your hands and it will spook a cow.
Edwin Jacob |
That is only because you were in the wrong country. In India where cows are sacred, they also aren't afraid of anything.
Unlike here where they are ever vigilant to avoid becoming dinner. |
I appreciate your multi-cultural insight which has enlightened me.
By coincidence, I am part Indian.
About 1 percent Mohawk.
Edwin Jacob |
I am about 6% Cheyenne. |
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Edwin Jacob Regular Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2016 Posts: 57 Location: Radcliff, Kentucky
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Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:39 pm Post subject: Re: Sacred Cows |
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LittleRusty wrote: | Edwin Jacob wrote: | LittleRusty wrote: | Edwin Jacob wrote: | Scared cows?
When I was a kid, I spent a lot of time on my grandparents' farm.
Almost anything will scare a cow.
Just clap your hands and it will spook a cow.
Edwin Jacob |
That is only because you were in the wrong country. In India where cows are sacred, they also aren't afraid of anything.
Unlike here where they are ever vigilant to avoid becoming dinner. |
I appreciate your multi-cultural insight which has enlightened me.
By coincidence, I am part Indian.
About 1 percent Mohawk.
Edwin Jacob |
I am about 6% Cheyenne.
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We are distant cousins !!!!!!
I'd compare family trees to see where our ancestors intersect,
but my genealogy skills are a little rusty.
Edwin Jacob |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12679 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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Someone else, a cousin, did most of our geneolgy research. I could take a DNA test, but if it isn't true, I don't want to know. Maybe way back in the '70s I could have gotten some aid for college. Oh well. |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2613
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Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: Sacred Cows |
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IP wrote: |
Are there any sacred cows in the trumpet world who are deemed too important for their playing to be analyzed? |
I've gotten dirty looks over the internet for saying I'm not that crazy about Miles.
From what I gather Jerome Callet enthusiasts don't like to hear any critique of him, though you'd be hard-pressed to actually find any examples of his playing to critique.
On the flip side I got peeved because an internet music reviewer didn't think much of Al Hirt's "Horn A Plenty" album, which is one of my favorite things to listen to. More pointedly I thought the guy was a clueless idiot who likes to hear himself talk.
I once heard a band director say he thought Doc's playing was "too mechanical". I thought it was an invalid statement then when I was in high school and I feel even more strongly about it now years later. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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Edwin Jacob Regular Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2016 Posts: 57 Location: Radcliff, Kentucky
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:58 am Post subject: Re: Sacred Cows |
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Robert P wrote: | [
I once heard a band director say he thought Doc's playing was "too mechanical". I thought it was an invalid statement then when I was in high school and I feel even more strongly about it now years later. |
Doc Severinsen is probably the most skillful trumpeter in history.
But one time I saw Al Hirt as guest on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson.
Doc Severinsen and Al Hirt played a song together.
I was expecting Doc to blow Al out of the water.
But I was surprised that when they were playing side-by-side, taking turns, Doc sounded stiff compared to Al.
Al just had a better ability to "swing".
That is not a put-down of Doc.
It is just a compliment to Al, that he surprised me by being even better than Doc in that particular style of playing.
The same is true regarding Doc Severinsen versus Maynard Ferguson.
Both were the best at what they did, but they excelled in different ways with different skill sets.
BTW, it was only in the last few years that I became a fan of Al Hirt.
I had no idea that he could tongue and finger like he did in the Green Hornet theme.
That was stunning.
Edwin Jacob |
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Joe Manzanares Regular Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2012 Posts: 66 Location: Texas
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:50 am Post subject: |
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To each his own... _________________ JM
South Texas Alumni Brass Band
Selmer Paris Chorus 92B Bb
Selmer Paris Sigma Bb
Yamaha YCR-732 Bb Cornet
Courtois Bb Flugelhorn
Monette & Kanstul Mouthpieces |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2613
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:35 am Post subject: Re: Sacred Cows |
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Edwin Jacob wrote: | Robert P wrote: | I once heard a band director say he thought Doc's playing was "too mechanical". I thought it was an invalid statement then when I was in high school and I feel even more strongly about it now years later. |
Doc Severinsen and Al Hirt played a song together.
I was expecting Doc to blow Al out of the water.
But I was surprised that when they were playing side-by-side, taking turns, Doc sounded stiff compared to Al.
Al just had a better ability to "swing". |
Interesting, I'd be curious to see the video both to see if I concur with your conclusion and just to see it. I wish all that old Tonight Show video of the band was readily available, but as I understand it a lot of older Tonight Show material was destroyed.
I never heard Doc have any problem swinging. Al Hirt was a phenomenal player of course, he was a style unto himself - they were totally different players.
Another video I wish was available is the Superbowl pregame or halftime show featuring Doc wearing an indian headdress and Al wearing a Viking hat having a trumpet "duel". There are still pics online but I've never found audio or video of it. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12679 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Its been a long time since I listened to Al. Glad I checked him out on spotify this morning. |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2613
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Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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LittleRusty wrote: | Its been a long time since I listened to Al. Glad I checked him out on spotify this morning. |
If you've never heard it, I recommend his "Horn A Plenty" album. Different than any other album he ever did. Everything about it is superb - Al was at the top of his game, incredible, sparkling arrangements by Billy May, a top-notch orchestra behind him (Gozzo on lead) which included french horn, tuba and harp, and state of the art recording. I never get tired of listening to it. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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Comeback Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Jun 2011 Posts: 1143
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Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:06 am Post subject: |
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Robert P wrote: | LittleRusty wrote: | Its been a long time since I listened to Al. Glad I checked him out on spotify this morning. |
If you've never heard it, I recommend his "Horn A Plenty" album. Different than any other album he ever did. Everything about it is superb - Al was at the top of his game, incredible, sparkling arrangements by Billy May, a top-notch orchestra behind him (Gozzo on lead) which included french horn, tuba and harp, and state of the art recording. I never get tired of listening to it. |
Thank you for the album tip, Robert P. I have been a fan of Al for many years, but never got around to focusing on specific albums. I do enjoy my Al Hirt Pandora station though...
Jim |
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