How to test for a good bach 37

[nabwong]

As above. I was thinking of purchasing an old bach. But aren't you guys concern about metal wear? It's metal and it deteriorates with age. Would buying a new one ( with careful testing ) be better than buying one off ebay?

Also, what is the opinion on Laquer, Silver or Gold plated horns? LT or LR series?

Most importantly, steps taken for a thorough testing of a horn

[_swthiel]

Welcome to the Trumpet Herald!

Check out this thread, it has (near the end) a summary of what I did when I tried out new horns a few weeks ago:
http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic=15225&forum=7

Steve
_________________
Steve Thiel

Matthew 25:31-46

[Nonsense Eliminator]

Unless you get lucky and find a Bach from the 60s or earlier that's in good condition (which is quite likely to cost as much as or more than a brand new horn), a new Bach is quite likely to be at least as good as an older one. The questions you raise seem to be widely overlooked -- no matter how nice the pictures look, there is no way to tell from them what the horn looks like on the inside, how it plays, or how it was been maintained, until you have it in your hot little hands. I would be reluctant to buy any horn I hadn't played, and that goes double for a used horn. With a new horn, you have to establish that you like the design and that there are no problematic manufacturing inconsistencies. With a used horn, those things are still an issue, plus the effects of n years of wear. If money isn't an issue, I would look for a new horn. If you're near a good-sized city, you should be able to try out at least half a dozen identical horns to pick out the best one.

As for procedure, more is better. Once you get beyond figuring out whether the horn is an absolute hunk of junk, which should only take a couple of minutes, I think that you're kind of on a treasure hunt, looking for problems with the horn. The greater the amount of time you can spend, the better. If you can take the horn to a rehearsal before you pull the trigger, so much the better. Bringing along an extra set of trusted ears is a big plus, too -- a cooler head will often spot problems it's easy to overlook behind the horn. "Yeah, the high notes come out easier but they're sharp as a tack."

I tend to play a lot of scales and arpeggios, looking for notes that are uncentred or out of tune. If you're comparing instruments, one way that you can usually eliminate one or two is bad pitch. Taking along a tuner can help here. Check out where the open notes sit when you play them exactly down the centre. The fourth-space E will be flat and the G at the top of the staff will be sharp, but sometimes they will be way off and that's obviously not good. Also, some instruments will tend to have expanded (high notes sharp, low notes flat) or compress (the opposite) scales, and that's obviously to be avoided as well.

Another good thing to evaluate is attack and immediacy of response. Playing some tongued passages, and attacking notes cold, will help you get a feel for this sort of thing. Once you've eliminated horns that have "objective" problems like these, the final criterion is going to be sound. Play some music of different styles on each horn and see which one you like. In my case, I might use some standard orchestral excerpts to see how they lie. Because I'm extremely familiar with them, it's pretty easy to compare them from horn to horn. Having another person in the room, or a good-quality recording device, can be quite helpful in these situations.

There is also some good advice here: http://www.dallasmusic.org/gearhead/

[nabwong]

Thanks for the great advice. I'm in Boston. So far, i only know 2 shops, rayburn and osmun. Anyone knows any other shops i can go try bachs? Well, my teacher is coming with me, that's a good thing.

Do most shops let you take the horn back for rehearsals until you've found the right one?

[plankowner110]

Bach 37 test for students:

Drop it once. Then if everything still works, it is a good horn!

[Nonsense Eliminator]

I think it would be pretty hard to go wrong taking your teacher to Rayburn and Osmun. Perfect. Some stores will allow the horns out of the shop for trials, but it depends on the store and sometimes on who you know. They may also offer a return policy, which more or less amounts to the same thing. If you and your teacher are absolutely sold on a particular horn, then taking it on trial for a couple of days isn't going to be a huge deal; but if it was a close call, the peace of mind of having played the thing in battle can be worth the aggravation.

[Trptbenge]

I have a little different spin on the Bach accessment. For the most part the best Bachs that I have played have been the early Elkhart Bachs. That doesn't mean that the new ones aren't as good. Some are as good. I have tried hundreds of horns in the past five years and everytime I am in another town for business or meetings I try and stop at a music store to see what horns they have in stock. One common thread I have been hearing is that stores have been experiencing some problems with Bach valves - which you never used to hear. Also, I know they have had some labor problems that has lead them to announce the closing of one of their factories in Elkhart.

I don't mean to dissuade you from considering a new Bach but I want to give you my spin on it. New Bachs go for around $1,500 now. I have seen there prices range from $1,475 to over $2,000 at different music stores. Woodwind and Brasswind is at $1,499.00 right now.
The best Bach I ever played and found for a friend was a late Mt. Vernon. It may be the best trumpet I have ever played. The next several best playing Bachs have been early Elkhart (one of them was from Steve Dillard @ http://www.horntrader.com Steve knows and plays Bachs.

One more thought on new Bachs. I have close friend who was at the International Trumpet Guild Conference as an exhibiter this past year. While he was there he tried as many of the horns as possible. He said when he tried the Bach horns and their sister company's new Selmer Paris Horns the Selmer horns were superior.

You can get a really great playing early Elkhart from $1,000 to $1,100 & sometimes less. If the horn has been reasonably taken care of you shouldn't have any metal problems. I wouldn't be concerned if the lacquer is worn but I would worry if there is metal damage from not wiping off the horn. Also, check the valve wear, smoothness and of course the compression. I would also refer back to the link to the earlier thread, DC - Dave gives you some great ideas on testing horns. Also, the link to Jim Donaldsons ideas on trying horns is excellent.

My advice is to have fun and try both old and new Bachs and find the one that fits you. There is always some controversy on being pro Bach or not pro Bach. Irregardless of what people say the Bach Strad is a great horn design but not all Strads are great.

Good Luck!

Mike