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Turkle
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love the Curry 3C. FWIW, I greatly prefer it in a Bach-style blank rather than the standard Curry blank. YMMV.
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Centennialsound
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I stand corrected! I looked at the mouthpiece again, and it is just the plain out olds "3", which is probably why the megatone felt quite a bit bigger. I really liked the megatone, I just felt like I didn't have enough connection with the horn, and to much with the mouthpiece if ya get what I mean. I do not own the megatone, as it is a friends who wasn't using it so I borrowed it to see how I like it. My impressions of it are as follows: I really liked the feel and the size, the rim was just about right, yet I felt more connected to the mouthpiece than I was the lead-pipe/whole horn, which made it a little bit of a disappointing mouthpiece. Because I really liked the size of the megatone, I tried a standard 3c and it seemed to be a bit shallow for my tastes. What I'm thinking is that I want a 3c (no doubt) but the depth and cut should probably be within the realm of the average between the two mouthpieces. At this point I know what I want, I'm just not sure exactly what to call it and where to find it!


Thank you
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TKSop
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with you now - just felt it was worth checking exactly what you were after!

Centennialsound wrote:
I stand corrected! I looked at the mouthpiece again, and it is just the plain out olds "3", which is probably why the megatone felt quite a bit bigger.


Right - well, I have an Olds "3" cornet piece on hand, and I've played enough Bach 3C's to state that pretty much every single one I've seen or owned (one genuine Mt Vernon, a couple of early Corp's, a large-letter and a current one) is significantly bigger, even though they were all noticeably different.

Centennialsound wrote:
I really liked the megatone, I just felt like I didn't have enough connection with the horn, and to much with the mouthpiece if ya get what I mean.


That could be a feedback thing - this is the classic complaint that many players have with the megatones, the additional weight can leave you feeling disconnected from the horn a bit.

It could also be parrtly that the larger ID, and you not being used to it, drew your focus away from the horn and into the alien feel at your chops.

Centennialsound wrote:
I do not own the megatone, as it is a friends who wasn't using it so I borrowed it to see how I like it. My impressions of it are as follows: I really liked the feel and the size, the rim was just about right, yet I felt more connected to the mouthpiece than I was the lead-pipe/whole horn, which made it a little bit of a disappointing mouthpiece.


Okay - so you liked the feel of the rim and the size, but not the feedback.

Centennialsound wrote:
Because I really liked the size of the megatone, I tried a standard 3c and it seemed to be a bit shallow for my tastes.


Welcome to the good old world of Vincent Bach consistency (by which I mean, the lack thereof).

This is the issue with Bach pieces, if they're from different periods in the companies history they can often be quite different - this is one reason you'll see posters moving away from Bach and towards the likes of Curry who are consistently making their pieces the same (and making it clear on the piece if they're not - dot vs no-dot 3C's, for example).


Centennialsound wrote:
What I'm thinking is that I want a 3c (no doubt) but the depth and cut should probably be within the realm of the average between the two mouthpieces. At this point I know what I want, I'm just not sure exactly what to call it and where to find it!


Without knowing what the two mouthpieces themselves were like, it might be rather difficult for anyone to guess what pieces might sit in between the two...
In theory, the rim and cup of both pieces should be identical (if they were produced in the same period)...

You're exactly right that knowing what exactly it is you're after is the easy part, it's knowing how to describe that (if you even can, when relating between two pieces that you don't have to hand!) and where to find that.


The Curry 3C. that's been highly recommended in this thread is a great option - it's a sensible 3C cup, a broad and quite cushioned rim and they play well. The standard blank weight sits somewhere between a standard Bach and a megatone Bach - it shouldn't be so heavy that it gives you that disconnected feeling that the megatone does.

The other one I'd suggest is definitely worth looking at is a James R New piece - they're more expensive (but still very reasonable for what you get, IMHO) at $120 for a one-piece, but I find the rim profile works a hell of a lot better for me than the Curry 3-dot rim did.
If you go down that road, you'd want either an S5M/S (an exact clone of Arturo Sandovals 3C) or an S4M/S, which is the same but a fraction narrower (still noticeably larger than your Olds 3, but not quite as large as the bigger 3C's).


Last edited by TKSop on Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:32 am; edited 2 times in total
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trickg
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turkle wrote:
I love the Curry 3C. FWIW, I greatly prefer it in a Bach-style blank rather than the standard Curry blank. YMMV.

I'm curious about this - what is the perceived difference in how they play and feel? Not that I'll switch - I'm digging the standard blank version enough that I'm not sure that I'd be inclined to switch.
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Turkle
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trickg wrote:
Turkle wrote:
I love the Curry 3C. FWIW, I greatly prefer it in a Bach-style blank rather than the standard Curry blank. YMMV.

I'm curious about this - what is the perceived difference in how they play and feel? Not that I'll switch - I'm digging the standard blank version enough that I'm not sure that I'd be inclined to switch.


Hi, I posted this in another thread just started for this purpose, but might as well post it here as well:

In my experience with playing a Curry 3C. in both blanks, the extra mass around the throat area really makes a difference. To me, heavy mouthpieces feel like I'm blowing into a brick wall and I really don't like it. It feels less flexible, and more effort to play for me.

The benefit to the heavier blank is I think more stability of tone and tighter slotting, for those that like that sort of thing.

But I prefer Bach blanks or even lighter, which light up (sizzle) quicker, are more flexible, and provide better player feedback, and I think more pop in the articulation maybe.

I don't find the effect subtle at all - it's immediately noticeable to me when A/B testing the mouthpieces.
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Dale Proctor
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's probably why I like the standard Curry blank. I use it more for classical-style music, and appreciate the good slotting and a tone without too much of an edge. I know what you're talking about when discussing lighter blanks, though - they do have more of a sizzle to them as well as seeming to be a little more responsive.
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trickg
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dale Proctor wrote:
That's probably why I like the standard Curry blank. I use it more for classical-style music, and appreciate the good slotting and a tone without too much of an edge. I know what you're talking about when discussing lighter blanks, though - they do have more of a sizzle to them as well as seeming to be a little more responsive.

I bought mine to use specifically for classical-style music, but more and more I'm finding that I can brighten it up quite a bit too if I push it. In any case, it gives me a nice smooth, dark tone, and it feels good too.
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BedfordTrumpeter
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turkle wrote:
In my experience with playing a Curry 3C. in both blanks, the extra mass around the throat area really makes a difference. To me, heavy mouthpieces feel like I'm blowing into a brick wall and I really don't like it. It feels less flexible, and more effort to play for me.

The benefit to the heavier blank is I think more stability of tone and tighter slotting, for those that like that sort of thing.

But I prefer Bach blanks or even lighter, which light up (sizzle) quicker, are more flexible, and provide better player feedback, and I think more pop in the articulation maybe.

I don't find the effect subtle at all - it's immediately noticeable to me when A/B testing the mouthpieces.


That's interesting. I've only ever played the standard Curry blank. Might have to try a Bach blank Curry just to satisfy my curiosity.
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GordonH
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TKSop wrote:


The other one I'd suggest is definitely worth looking at is a James R New piece - they're more expensive (but still very reasonable for what you get, IMHO) at $120 for a one-piece, but I find the rim profile works a hell of a lot better for me than the Curry 3-dot rim did.
If you go down that road, you'd want either an S5M/S (an exact clone of Arturo Sandovals 3C) or an S4M/S, which is the same but a fraction narrower (still noticeably larger than your Olds 3, but not quite as large as the bigger 3C's).


I was about to buy a Warburton 4SV for piccolo trumpet when I saw an S4MS for sale used on EBay. I bought it and put it on a Warburton 8* backbore and it makes a great sound. The rim is very similar to the Horntrader, t the point of being indistinguishable on the lips. I can play up to a top B on the A side which is a good start on a new instrument. I may have fallen on my feet here.
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cyber_shake
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As so many noted, the Curry 3C seems to be a favorite.

Currently, I've fallen in love with the Yamaha 14B GP, which is their 3C with a Megatone-ish body. The GP = gold plate, which flows from the rim through the cup and the entire inner shank. Comfy rim, great feel and easier for me to play high than my old Bach 3C.

The HT3 series available at HornTrader are made by Curry and are also very nice. The rim is borrowed from Arturo's MV 3C and are just great.
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RandyTX
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turkle wrote:
I love the Curry 3C. FWIW, I greatly prefer it in a Bach-style blank rather than the standard Curry blank. YMMV.


I agree completely. I have a couple (of each version), but I find I prefer the Bach blank version of it by a surprisingly wide margin. Costs the same, so... why not?
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mm55
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RandyTX wrote:
Costs the same, so... why not?

Huh? Where do you get them for the same price?
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trickg
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mm55 wrote:
RandyTX wrote:
Costs the same, so... why not?

Huh? Where do you get them for the same price?

Good question - that's a $60 option at Mouthpiece Express.
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mafields627
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My favorite 3C is an old Bach I found on the ground at a marching band practice in college. It's small letters and is a bit smaller and has a flatter rim than the current iteration. I've had 5 or 6 Bach 3C's over the years and they all play/feel differently, but this is the one that really works for me.

I've tried the Curry 3C, but I always felt that it was actually a bit bigger and had more bite that what I expected. I thought the tone was a bit more brilliant too.
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onlyson
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of my favorites is a Bach Artisan 3C which I like for commercial stuff on my Yamaha LA. Nice and warm in the lower register, but lights up when you give it some gas. Definitely larger diameter than a standard Bach 3C, but maybe a tad bit shallower. The rim is unusual and has sort of a Schilke feel. Paid about $95 a few years back.

Another favorite is the Austin Custom Brass Mt. Vernon 3C. A really warm sound out of this one, especially when coupled with my Committee. A big 3C for sure, and this one has a sort of oversize Bach-style blank which provides a very cushioned rim. Paid $125.
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Turkle
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trickg wrote:
mm55 wrote:
RandyTX wrote:
Costs the same, so... why not?

Huh? Where do you get them for the same price?

Good question - that's a $60 option at Mouthpiece Express.


When, years ago, I bought my first Curry 3C. in a Bach blank from Dillon Music, it was no extra charge.

Last year, when I tried to buy another one as a backup, it was a significant upcharge for the different blank, I think maybe $60 but I didn't check my old emails to see exactly what it was.

So I think it used to be no charge, but may be now. Others are welcome to chime in if your experience was different.
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mafields627 wrote:
My favorite 3C is an old Bach I found on the ground at a marching band practice in college. It's small letters and is a bit smaller and has a flatter rim than the current iteration. I've had 5 or 6 Bach 3C's over the years and they all play/feel differently, but this is the one that really works for me.

I've tried the Curry 3C, but I always felt that it was actually a bit bigger and had more bite that what I expected. I thought the tone was a bit more brilliant too.

I'm in the same boat. My 3C feels a lot like a Yamaha 14. Newer 3Cs including the Curry feel a size or two bigger.
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Hudson08
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another vote for Bob Reeves and his 42 series. I like the C and M cups with #2 backbore. The 69 bb is great too, but for more commercial stuff. Good luck!
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jadickson
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Curry 3C is one I keep coming "home" to. I love the tone.

Bach changes their designs every once in a while without telling anyone. The newest "generation" of their 3C is actually very good. If the last Bach 3c you tried had large letters, go buy a new one.

However, James New's M cup, which was scanned from Auturo's Mt Vernon 3C, may be my new favorite. Choose your rim and diameter (S5M-S backbore seems to be the closest to a Bach 3C).

I have found that 3C-ish rim contour is not a good fit for me. I guess it's my lip shape. Since James New has all of the scans you see on the Kanstul comparator, I visited a friend who has almost every Schilke mouthpiece out there and found the rim contour that worked for me the best, even after several hours of playing. It was the Schilke 20 (diameter was a little too big, but the rim contour was the best fit). So right now, James New is making me a 6M-S with the Schilke 20 rim and bite.

Of course, a custom piece like that does not fit the price point you set in your original post.
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

I know that I keep harping on about this, and for this I truly apologise, but I really do think that the OP needs to bear in mind that he is looking for a mouthpiece for a Kanstul 1537 trumpet.

Although I haven't tried a Kanstul one piece trumpet mouthpiece, I have owned a couple of Kanstul B10 trumpet backbores. If they are as consistent as I've found the Kanstul B10 cornet backbores to be, then these two are representative of Kanstul B10 trumpet backbores in general.

Although I admittedly typically prefer less rather than more gap, and am currently in the process of having Jim New make me sleeves to decrease the gap slightly in my Bach 37, I play my Xeno II trumpet with a gap very similar to that of the supplied Yamaha 16C4 mouthpiece. I however had to have my original B10 trumpet backbore sleeved because it bottomed out in the receiver of my Bach 37 and didn't slot very well. I recently bought another used one, and it inserts subsequently more than the James R New backbores/6.5 sleeves combinations I use on my Xeno II, and is currently with Jim New to be sleeved.

It seems to me that if the Kanstul B10 trumpet backbores insert too far into my Bach 37 and Yamaha Xeno II, to the point that I've had to have them sleeved to insert less far, then a Bach 3C and possibly quite a few 3C style mouthpieces from other manufacturers (since my understanding is that Kanstul mouthpieces gap pretty similarly to Schilke mouthpieces, and insert further into the receiver than most) are likely to insert not far enough into a Kanstul trumpet to give the mouthpiece gap obtained with a Kanstul trumpet/Kanstul mouthpiece combination.

Maybe this doesn't matter to the OP or some other players, but as a player who prefers less rather than more gap, it matters to me. I really think that the OP needs to add mouthpiece gap as one more parameter to consider, or consider having whatever mouthpiece he ultimately chooses, sleeved to gap properly in his Kanstul 1537.

If the one piece Kanstul 3C supplied with the 1537 trumpet gaps differently to the B10 trumpet backbores, then obviously what I am saying is irrelevant, but I'm presuming that Kanstul use the same shank dimensions for their one piece models and modular backbores.

Anyway, I suppose what I am really saying, is that I believe that the choice of rim diameter, rim contour, cup depth and cup shape is player preference, with maybe some cup shapes and cup depths, and some throat sizes and backbore sizes/shapes generally working better on some makes/models of trumpet, and that although choice of gap is also player specific, that I really think that there is something in sticking along the lines of the gap built into the design, such as around 1/8" for a Bach trumpet/Bach mouthpiece combination.

Anyway, hopefully this will help.

If I was in the OPs situation, I'd contact Jim New. Not only was he the mouthpiece maker for Kanstul, and probably wholly or largely responsible for the design of the one piece Kanstul 3C supplied with the Kanstul 1537, and therefore a person who would know what mouthpieces are likely to be a good match, but his own mouthpiece range is already very highly regarded, his prices are very reasonable and his customer service is excellent.

That really would be my advice.

All the best

Lou
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