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MoonBoy Regular Member
Joined: 19 Jun 2003 Posts: 89 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 10:45 am Post subject: |
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I just had a bad playing experience, nothing went right. Just practicing, pr pressure or anything. My lower lip is getting chewed up badly by my lower teeth. Do people open thier jaw to play? For me opening my jaw is necessary to get any sound out of the trumpet and my lower lip automatically rolls in over my lower teeth. Which is causing me some anxiety, I try to modify the way I hold my trumpet(i.e. more perpendicular to my body) which only makes the sound terrible it seems everything I try makes my sound very airy and not real pleasent to play. Maybe I should drop the trumpet altogether if it's just going to be a dead-end road, but I enjoy playing again so much . . .
_________________ Chris
1948 Olds Ambassador
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_dcstep Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jul 2003 Posts: 6324 Location: Denver
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 11:10 am Post subject: |
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Man, develop some patience! You've only been at it a few days. In fact, it's about the right time for your lips to be stiff and tired from all the new things you've been trying. Give them a break and back off for a few days.
Yes, most of us open our jaw to the degree that our tongue will go between our teeth. For me it's about 1/4", but I don't think the exact gap is important. If you can do the first BE tonguing excercise, then you're on the right track.
Relax. These things take time.
Dave _________________ Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
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Bob Cross Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 473 Location: Sacramento
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Chris -
I have only been doing trumpet for two years and BE for two months, but I can give you a couple things to think about.
First, like DC said, have patience, and learn to enjoy the not-so-good days. If you only enjoy playing on your best days, then you are setting yourself up to be disappointed most of the time. Think long term - what do you expect from a few months back on the horn and a week or two on BE? Would there be much satisfaction in playing well if it were that easy with no setbacks? Trumpet is hard, and without trying to sound mean, if you can't accept bad days at this stage you would be better off with a hobby that didn't frustrate you so much.
On the techinical side, you mention that your lower lip rolls under (your top lip?) and gets chewed up by your lower teeth. I don't think that your lips should ever be in a position where your teeth could chew either of them, but if I am wrong maybe one our our more experienced playes will pipe in.
Are you doing the roll out exercises? These are designed to get that lower jaw out - it was a revelation to me, since I used to play with my lower jaw much further back. With that lower jaw out and the lips in front of the teeth, I don't see how the lips could chew them. The roll outs are just as important as the roll ins, and in your case might be more important. If your sound is airy, you may not be getting a good mp seal, and roll out is tremendous for getting a better seal and better tone.
Check page 80 of BE very carefully - the lips are NOT sucked between the teeth - I am sure this is true for the lip clamp, since that is what the book says. I am pretty sure this applies to roll in and regular playing too. I find that I have to read Jeff's book extremely carefully - he has chosen his words very carefully in writing it.
So if that is where your lip is being chewed up, get those where Jeff says - they can't be chewed there. If you are sucking your lips between your teeth in your normal emouchure you might want to check with a pro. I am not aware of anybody that advocates that - seems like it would hurt. The only other thing is to get enough rest - that is easier for me to say than to do. But again, it is important to think long term. Continuing to practice when your lips are damaged is breaking your embouchure down instead of building it up.
Jeff has emphasized that BE is not a program for somebody who needs to get better quickly. On the other hand, I have gotten a lot better quickly with BE, but that is probably because my lip position was my major problem when I started BE.
My guess is that before this post is dead, you will be over your pain and frustration. Good Luck.
Bob |
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MoonBoy Regular Member
Joined: 19 Jun 2003 Posts: 89 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you both for the nice and very correct messeges. I am impatient but I'm slowly (is there any other way?) learning to be a more practical and slow myself down. I suppose I haven't done enough and expected miracles. I had a bad day and needed some words of wisdom. I need to get to a trumpet teacher, take some lessons, read BE a few more times, and learn how to chill when my playing doesn't sound as good as it did 7 years ago.
Thanks,
Chris _________________ Chris
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Larrios Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2003 Posts: 794 Location: Serooskerke (Walcheren), The Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Bob,
<<<I have only been doing trumpet for two years and BE for two months, but I can give you a couple things to think about.>>>
You have been writing some great posts on this forum, especially when you consider you have only been behind the horn for two years! I can only say 'wow' and 'thanks' for sharing your thoughts with us.
Ko |
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Jacko New Member
Joined: 10 Jan 2004 Posts: 10 Location: England
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 8:45 am Post subject: |
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Hi Chris
Keep your eyes on the forum. Looks to me like there is years of BE and Trumpet experience here.
I've been at this BE thing about four weeks now and like you I seem to be having good days and bad days at it. I'm taking a fairly casual, but serious approach to the exercises. I am generally using them to warm up, taking about 15 minutes at the start of practice. But sometimes thoses squeeks just don't seem to come out. So forget it. Go and practice some other stuff. Come back to it later......things never seem so bad then.
The great news for me, is I can get high C's without any effort. F's & G's above high C's are regulars. I never got these notes before in my life, not after 30 years of playing. This is inspiration to keep going. Reading through the posts, I guess I'm giving myself a good six months to make initial progress.
Hang in there.
Jacko |
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barryj1 Veteran Member
Joined: 12 Nov 2001 Posts: 409 Location: Attleboro, MA
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 9:35 am Post subject: |
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Chris,
Don't be overly discouraged by the bad days or lack of immediate benefit/progress with BE. As other trumpeters have pointed out, the method is an indirect approach which tends to remedy embouchure problems without the player being consciously aware of what's happened.
In previous posts, I have described myself as a 'hopeless case' who has benefited greatly over the past two years from the BE approach. It is essential to continue practicing the exercises while reading (and rereading) the accompanying text.
barry |
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MoonBoy Regular Member
Joined: 19 Jun 2003 Posts: 89 Location: Boston, MA
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Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2004 9:44 am Post subject: |
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Thank you barry,
I just had a bad day and in my funk I posted a whine that was just negativity. I'm thankful for the support of the people here, even though you don't have to repond, I'm very glad everybody did. I'm happy to have such a great resource to listen to! _________________ Chris
1948 Olds Ambassador
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